Sidearm Advice?

Any chat about technique, training methods, requests for advice etc.
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Steve
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Post by Steve » Fri May 21, 2010 10:29 am

Errrr, this is getting all a bit serious! I was just going to show a couple of people a few different techniques! :oops:
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West
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Post by West » Fri May 21, 2010 11:42 am

Steve wrote:Errrr, this is getting all a bit serious! I was just going to show a couple of people a few different techniques! :oops:
Not serious, just a record of your skillz so people who aren't at the event can see them :)

Not got a camcorder yet ;)
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ManicMinerUK
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Post by ManicMinerUK » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:52 am

I have to keep spamming this board as I can't seem to get an account registered on DGR (I keep registering but it never gets activated... Why do they hate me so much? :D)

I've been watching a lot of videos of forehand/sidearm throws, and a real mystery has developed. Check out these two vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7haXaVs_RM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSZyYAVPbs

What I notice is that as they start to bring the disc forward, their elbow is a long way ahead of their arm... in fact if you pause the video as they start to sling their arm out, it looks like they've broken their elbows. (0.40 in the Jenkins video, 0.42 in the Bennet video)

I don't mean broken in the american sense, that they are bending them, I mean it looks like their limb is shattered and mangled in a car crash. It just doesn't look physically possible at all. I definitely can't get my arm to bend like that.

It's clear that the slingshot they are getting from this bend is enormous, but I just don't get what's happening with their anatomy. It actually makes me feel a bit ill looking at their arms in those shots. How are they doing this without destroying their bodies? Am I misreading the videos or does everyone else's arm bend like that and I'm the weirdo?

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rhatton1
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Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Yours probably does you've just never seen it in super slow mo.

They actually turn the elbow out from the shoulder which puts the elbow out in front of the hand and allows the slingshot like action.

I was just trying this in the office, if you roll your right shoulder backwards and arch your right pec forwards keeping your hand in the same place it will have this affect on your elbow. In super slo mo the effect is hugely enhanced, the naked eye would never see the strains the sidearm can put on the elbow joint. As Avery said down at Croydon last year if he attempted to throw as hard as Ville with the sidearm action he would do permanent damage and you can see why.
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LostMeow
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Post by LostMeow » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:28 pm

You probably underestimate how much your tendons and sinews can stretch when a larger force is put on them: you couldn't reach that arm position from stationary, and it would be uncomfortable (in the extreme) to hold it there, but it is basically stretching like a spring with force applied to it.
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ManicMinerUK
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Post by ManicMinerUK » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:00 pm

rhatton1 wrote: I was just trying this in the office, if you roll your right shoulder backwards and arch your right pec forwards keeping your hand in the same place it will have this affect on your elbow.
This is what concerns me... I'm trying the same thing right now, rolling my shoulder backwards and arching my chest forward... I absolutely cannot get my elbow out in front of my hand... I can get them nearly in line with each other at best, and that is with mild wrist and shoulder pain that is telling me I'm right at the limit of my joints bendiness.

I have seen my sidearm form in slow-ish motion video and I'm nowhere even close to this. I'm a bit fixated on this bend at the moment as it's the one constant in every video of an even halfway decent sidearm drive I've found on the internet, so clearly its the key to big forehand D.

I'm willing to accept that its a momentary bending of the sinews in the elbow and that, grotesque as it looks, no permanent damage is caused, so now I just need to figure out how to do it! It's puzzling me because obviously its not a body position you can practice and find a route to like I can with most other aspects of throwing form. I can't figure out where they are driving the arm from to get it to happen... Shoulder I guess but with the arm flopping around like that how are they controlling release angle?

Sidearm form seems to be mysteries upon mysteries, but I'm enjoying trying to figure out how it all works.

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LostMeow
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Post by LostMeow » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:55 pm

Have you ever played squash or badminton? If you have, think about how you'd hit the ball/shuttlecock hard on the forehand side.... there's a flicking motion where the elbow comes through first and forces the forearm and hand to follow through. I wouldn't say there was anything 'floppy' about the arm in this shot, and you can flick through with the wrist at pretty much any angle you like.
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ManicMinerUK
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Post by ManicMinerUK » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:37 am

Another question while I'm thinking about it:

On a sidearm throw, where is the nose? I know I have to keep the nose down but I don't really get which bit of the disc that is... Is the nose the opposite side to my hand, or is it at 12-o-clock?

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neil
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Post by neil » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:41 am

The nose is the front but don't always keep it down though, if the wind is coming towards you keep it down if its behind you keep it up a little if there is no wind throw it with the nose level but the wing (opposit to your grip) up that way with an overstable disc you will get a nice s curve getting you a good bit more distance.

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rhatton1
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Re: Sidearm Advice?

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:26 pm

ManicMinerUK wrote:Another question while I'm thinking about it:



On a sidearm throw, where is the nose? I know I have to keep the nose down but I don't really get which bit of the disc that is... Is the nose the opposite side to my hand, or is it at 12-o-clock?
Really really old thread bump, but what are friday afternoons for otherwise!

The nose is whatever is at the front of the disc as you release.

If you are throwing a big drive with your wrist cocked backwards and holding at let's say 12 (edge closest to the basket) normally this will be the back side of the disc (6 oclock) that pivots around your grip and ends up at the front on release. Smaller approaches with less power required it might be more like 4 oclock. Sidearm drill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9WC2NUJC_U
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