Technique tips and hints

Any chat about technique, training methods, requests for advice etc.
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West
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Re: Tips - me?

Post by West » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:21 pm

bdga30 wrote:Hi,

If anyone else knows of tips I may have given in the past, can you forward them to me - I appear to have forgotten them (all) :shock:

Jonnie (tipless) B
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I can't remember if it was you or not, but I find aiming at the basket most of the time helps ;-)
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Post by West » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:24 pm

bruce wrote:Thought I'd share a couple of practice methods I've used:

1) Take a skillshot or similar out into a wide open field. Starting from around 30m throw four approaches; 1 hyzer, 1 straight, 1 anhyzer, 1 sidearm. Go putt them all out. If there's any significant wind, I'll do this from a few different directions. Then move out to 40m, repeat, 50m repeat, out to around 70m. Aiming obviously to get up and down with every approach.
Pros: you get to practice all your approaching skills, plus you get some varied putting practice
Cons: you need a basket and a wide open space

2) An open field again, and a small collection of cones/sticks/anything that will be visible from distance. Find somewhere throw from, then pace out and mark 10m intervals from 30m to 100m away from you. Throw a hyzer to each of the markers, starting from 30 and working out. It doesn't have to be a pure hyzer, just keep the whole flight to the right-hand side of the line (if you're a righty). After collecting the discs, walk 30m past the 100m marker, and repeat, heading back to your original position. The repeat the whole exercise throwing anhyzers (or at least throws that start out down the left).
Pros: You rapidly learn distance control and how your discs react to certain lines.
Cons: It's only really practical to practice two wind directions in any session
I like both of these and think will give it a shot (maybe shorter distances depending on open space).

Rich and I at the weekend did approaching towards eachother with a load of discs to get the action right. Started off at about 30m away and threw a load of straight shots, then hyzer shots (I'm rubbish at these), then some An-hyzer shots and finally a couple more straight. After I sent them to him and he sent them back he'd move back another 10m and we'd repeat. We did this until we where about 60m away and then finally practiced between the basket on hole 4 and basket on hole 18 before to play some holes. It helped a lot, so much so approached with a putter on hole 15 after a nice drive, but was still about 40m short and got it in! :D
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Post by rhatton1 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:40 pm

West wrote:
Rich and I at the weekend did approaching towards eachother with a load of discs to get the action right. Started off at about 30m away and threw a load of straight shots, then hyzer shots (I'm rubbish at these), then some An-hyzer shots and finally a couple more straight. After I sent them to him and he sent them back he'd move back another 10m and we'd repeat. We did this until we where about 60m away and then finally practiced between the basket on hole 4 and basket on hole 18 before to play some holes. It helped a lot, so much so approached with a putter on hole 15 after a nice drive, but was still about 40m short and got it in! :D
A hole which proved my theory I'm more accurate at 95 meters than I am at 40, managed to hit the bucket from the drive on this hole yet from 40 meters out on hole 13 managed to take four shots to get in for a rubbish five. grrr, the approaching practice before might have worked for Westy, however for me.....
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Post by West » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:26 pm

rhatton1 wrote:
West wrote:
Rich and I at the weekend did approaching towards eachother with a load of discs to get the action right. Started off at about 30m away and threw a load of straight shots, then hyzer shots (I'm rubbish at these), then some An-hyzer shots and finally a couple more straight. After I sent them to him and he sent them back he'd move back another 10m and we'd repeat. We did this until we where about 60m away and then finally practiced between the basket on hole 4 and basket on hole 18 before to play some holes. It helped a lot, so much so approached with a putter on hole 15 after a nice drive, but was still about 40m short and got it in! :D
A hole which proved my theory I'm more accurate at 95 meters than I am at 40, managed to hit the bucket from the drive on this hole yet from 40 meters out on hole 13 managed to take four shots to get in for a rubbish five. grrr, the approaching practice before might have worked for Westy, however for me.....
Hence why we need more! :-)
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Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:15 am

Below is another bit of technique advice lifted from Disc golf review a couple of days ago. Paul, i think this answers your questions from last weekend fairly well, and Danny, he extends what I was talking about with the standing with the arms loose idea and twisting the hips to get them up, this is about the best explanation I have seen as to why most of our UK golfers tend to hit a distance plateau. This was an answer to a question that can be seen at http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... =2&t=16139 there are lots of answers prior to this which the majority of us would probably find confusing and difficult to change without help though:

Two facts:

Fact 1: 300 ft (90 meters) is about as far as most men can throw using primarily the strength of their arm to propel the disc. For women it is closer to 230 ft (75-80 meters) .

Fact 2: The fact that you get the same distance no matter how you do your step implies that you aren't getting anything out of your legs, which drive your torso, which is the platform for your shoulders...

The sum:

Fact 1 + Fact 2 = You're strong-arming, throwing with your arm, and you're not getting much of anything from your torso and shoulders.

Your arm is of order 10X less powerful than your legs/torso. Stop throwing with your arm! Your arm is only useful for positioning and gripping, other than that, it is purely passive. Your arm needs to be turned into a whip that is driven by the powerful motion of your legs/hips/torso/shoulders.

Here's an exercise I might suggest:

Stand still with your arms at your side, completely relaxed. Turn your hips and torso back slowly and then rotate your hips quickly to the open position. Your arms should be whipped out and around in a windmill motion, without you using a single muscle in your arms. That's the feeling you should be aiming for.

Next do the same thing, except extend your throwing elbow out sideways from your body and hold it there (as if you put a vice around your shoulder). Allow your lower throwing arm and hand to hang limp from your elbow. Do it as if your arm were asleep and some mechanical device was locked onto your shoulder to keep the elbow pointed out side ways from your torso. Don't allow your elbow to move forward or backward, nor up nor down. It is completely locked in place, as if you no longer even had a shoulder joint and your upper arm were fused into your shoulder so that it would always point out sideways.

Now slowly turn your hips and torso back, and turn them abruptly open again. Don't use a single muscle in your arm! Now you should find that you've turned your arm into a whip. Your lower arm should be whipping forward super-fast. In fact, you can whip your lower arm forward way faster in this manner than your arm muscles could ever dream of doing. Your arm muscle strength decreases rapidly as speed increases, so they are useless anyways...trying to use them will only slow down this motion. You'll find that whipping your lower arm forward in this manner, with the elbow "stopped," will feel relatively effortless in comparison to trying to throw with your arm as you've probably been doing before.

Practice getting this feeling for a while. (Later you can work on the grip and positioning in finer detail, but for now focus on using your legs/hips/torso/shoulders as the powerful motor for whipping your arm forward.)
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Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:25 am

I've just skim read through the next four pages of this thread and its well worth reading when you have time. Its the best description I have seen so far of the mechanics of a good throw, or launch as I'm more and more coming to think of the drive.

I tend to feel the word throw actually gives us a wrong idea of how to get the most distance (and often with this accuracy) out of a drive, as we feel we need to "strongarm" the disc to get greatest distance when in fact this often isn't the case. As we have all noticed at some point or other, the drives that go the best tend to be those we don't feel like we have put too much effort into, this is because we have allowed our bodies to launch the disc rather than throwing it with the arm.
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Post by Village » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:17 pm

I intend to be at QP on Sunday to put some of this shizzle into practice...
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Post by West » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:02 pm

Village wrote:I intend to be at QP on Sunday to put some of this shizzle into practice...
I'm up for trying :D
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Post by Village » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:05 pm

West wrote:
I'm up for trying :D
surely the words "up" and "for" were superfluous..... :D
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Post by Jester » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:30 pm

Great to see that people are genuinely interested on working on their technique and improving their game. If we're going to start closing the skill gap to other countries this is a great start (and as a nice by-product we get to play golf better too) ;)

One key thing to remember when trying out a new technique:

Give.

It.

Time.

It's the same thing for almost everyone. You find a technique tweak initially makes a positive change which is exciting, but if you don't continue to practice it old muscle memory takes over and you slip back into old ways without realising. Suddenly you're playing worse than before and can't work out why. Gradually you end up back in your old style and find comfort in its familiarity, but ultimately you've had zero improvement.

When you make a technique change stick with it and keep practicing. You might have to sacrifice your performance at a tournament or two as you get to grips, but your overall skill level and improvement will make up for it in time.
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Post by devehrey » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:53 am

Here are some tips about driving:
  1. You should be using a grip that has all 4 fingers under the disc. Your grip should be firm and the disc should rip out of your hand rather than slip out.
  2. When people talk about a very tight grip they are referring to tightening the grip right when the disc should rip out of your hand. Your thumb should as close to the edge of the disc as possible while still being over the soft part of the disc.
  3. Footwork and balance will dictate the success and failure of your throw. If you are off balance and have a poor center of gravity a consistent and accurate throw will be very difficult to achieve without compensating in other ways.
  4. If your weight is behind your foot it will affect your throw in negative ways and also risk injuries to your knee and ankle.
  5. Your reach should only be as far as you feel comfortable with and can maintain good balance. You should reach in a straight line rather than swinging the disc back on an arc.
  6. For maximum power and speed your shoulder rotation should pull your arm through. Don't try to muscle or “strong arm” the disc it won't be nearly as powerful or fast as a whip driven by the shoulders.
  7. Also, keep the disc as close to your chest as possible and let your elbow bend.
  8. Most of the modern “ultra long” drivers are designed with the pro player in mind.
  9. Most new players will have the best success with discs that are easy to control and have good glide and discs under 170 grams in weight.
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Post by ManicMinerUK » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:16 am

I still don't understand number 1.

I can easily go through the motions of my throw at full speed and be holding the disc at the end. I also know I don't have a very good grip, as there is an existing injury to the tendons in the back of my hand (RSI from my teenage years) that means I have a significantly weaker grip than a healthy person.

I think people must be doing something unconsciously to facilitate the disc leaving their hand. How could brute force ripping the disc possibly give you a consistently timed release, especially at different power levels.

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Post by neil » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:01 am

Just after you have pulled the Disc through your body and as your arm extends and just before your follow through there is a violent action caused by sudden direction change which gives you your snap, it's a little like cracking a whip so apart from early release or finger lock the disc can only "rip" out of your hand in pretty much one direction the trick is to be able to aim this violent action in the right direction every time :( if you can do that then your Del or Jester or Bruce to name but a few.
If you have a problem with grip at all try working on a forehand shot, the grip is more relaxed and the violent action needed for snap is caused more by a forward motion stopping suddenly with little need for any follow through. your more putting the disc where your hand goes. you may not get as much distance as the big armed backhand throwers but it may be more comfortable for you and more comfort equals bigger smiles :D and at the end of the day two short drives and a putt is just the same as a long drive a shorter aproach and a putt they are both three's.

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Post by ManicMinerUK » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:53 am

Yeah this is pretty much why I've ended up switching to a sidearm drive off most tees, although that brings its own problems :)

Sidearm seems to be an extremely streaky throwing style... some days I have a sweet 60 - 70 metre low and fast sidearm throw, on pretty much any line I want. The next day its spray and pray 30 metre drives that hyzer off horribly.

Anyway, that's probably for another topic... I'm intrigued by this talk of the backhand release at the moment. I guess I'm just not getting that violent change of direction... I'm assuming this is the arm reaching full extension and then arcing around in the follow through?

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Post by neil » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:25 am

so, where ever your starting position is (of the actual throwing not the run up) you will have your wrist slightly bent, maybe around 45 degrees or a little less (don't be fooled into over bending your wrist thinking it will give more snap because it starts to cause drag) then you pull the disc through your body as close as you can without fowling your clothes. at this point you are pulling it with your elbow ( a little like the same motion as starting a petrol lawn mower with a cord only horizontal to your body) then as your arm extends your wrist wants to unwind, this is the whip action, the violent movement that will pull your disc out of your hand, then the follow through with your chest pointing towards the basket will give you the balance and stability at the point of, ahhhhhhhh, release.

As for the sidearm, for pure distence if there is a wind on your back or no wind at all throw a 's' curve, if the wind is coming towards you or from the right remember that the wind is going to hold the wing up so throw it out flat or even a little anhyzer if the wind is from your left......well..... throw a backhand. one thing though on release of a side arm try and make sure that your throwing hand ends up pointing towards the sky if it isn't then you have turned your wrist and...well..that baby aint coming back.

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Post by West » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:09 pm

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but here it comes ...

To get the release (well in my case) you need to pull the disc through across your chest and not in an arc around the body. Once the disc has been pulled through with enough power it will snap out at the end of the pull through before you follow through. There should be a small wrist flick (still working on this) at the end which adds more to the shot and at this point the disc should want to leave your hand in the direction that your shoulder is aiming at.

I can't say I've ever consiously thought "I need to let go of this now".

edit the power is generated through the rotation of the body, not purely by muscle.
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Re: Technique tips and hints

Post by Jaxsky » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:04 pm

Hi guys,

Sorry to kinda leap on this about 5 years after the last post, however i just wanted to say that this has been extremely useful to me (Sat at my desk in work), not saying it will translate to on the course success but it feels like it should.

I have been playing for around a month and have about 4 discs (And a trendy backpack ;))

I'm trying to work on routines etc for all the shots and find I'm slowly improving, I'm really intrigued by the 'Whipping arm' description as I feel like I'm lugging my whole arm through the drive and as such I throw my Katana around 100m when I'm fully aware it should be going double that (At least)!

For a newbie I'm loving reading these tips and I will admit the humor :)

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Re: Technique tips and hints

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:50 pm

Great to see someone actually reads this bit other than me ;)

Where abouts do you live/play?

If you are throwing a Katana 200 m you would be pushing for world records in the right conditions!

100 meters is a very good distance for someone playing for 4 weeks. TBH there are a lot of people on the British Tour that don't throw this far, or at least can't do it on demand.

Generally if working on form I would suggest using a slower more stable disc than a Katana as it's the sort of disc that will mask form flaws and produce long term issues. Things like Teebirds are great fairway drivers for working on form or just throwing putters.

Driving the arm as a whip drill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-KCDa-r-GA Not sure if you have seen this but I recorded it for the lazy that couldn;t be bothered to read. I've got a few other videos on their as well and will be doing more in future. WRT the second drill instead of pulling down a wall I have revised this down to pulling your elbow over a line on the ground - like the touchline of a football pitch. Your elbow is the most important bit here, the disc can actually come offline slightly, but keep the elbow down the line for as long as possible this will help force your body into the correct positions.
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Re: Technique tips and hints

Post by Jaxsky » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:47 am

Hi rhatton1,

I did rather sneakily read these yesterday in work and then proceeded to have the worst round ever in wet and windy conditions.

I live around Bristol and have been playing on the Mendip course, I also went once round the course at Ashton Court.

I tend to throw the Katana much higher than I should (I think) and thus lose a lot of distance and power on it.

The Mendip course starting in the trees is 'cosy' and as such is forcing me to try and throw smoother straighter shots, I currently use a Shark for this but I have a massive tendency to lose it left.

I will check out the videos on my lunch break, I have a couple that I have recorded of my throwing so I'd be interested for your feedback/advice on them.

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Re: Technique tips and hints

Post by robbnot » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:08 pm

But the pulling down the wall really does make you learn to pull through straight, especially if you have Woodchip.
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