Page 1 of 1

Non PDGA member wins

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:19 pm
by DILLIGAF
Sorry to pose a strange question, but how does a non PDGA member win the PDGA memers only British Opens Adv. Ams comp????

:shock:

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 pm
by madfrolfer
I believe that was worked out as his national PDGA Rep was at the event. Tim had said that assurance from a National Rep that the membership is being put through would be sufficient.

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:25 pm
by bruce
Despite the stirring, the player's is being processed, which is sufficient.

The PDGA only process memberships on Wednesdays, so anything sent to them after that will not appear til the following Weds.

If you fancy causing trouble, try going to the PDGA page and clicking Fernando's name... :lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:32 pm
by DILLIGAF
So the Player saying he's not paid means nothing???? :?:

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am
by bruce
Ace_Hole wrote:So the Player saying he's not paid means nothing???? :?:
Maybe ask the 3rd place Am how much money he paid to Duncan before the tournament. Or I'll tell you, none. A certain amount of leeway, and trusting the player's integrity is needed. It's called 'Spirit of the Game'

Or you can carry on moaning about getting beat by someone who played 70-80 points above his rating for the whole event... :P

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:24 am
by DILLIGAF
getting beat by better players is the norm.

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:42 am
by TheGroover
Hi
This is interesting - i was initially sceptical, and felt Paul (2nd-placed Am) had a legitimate complaint, particularly given other stories/rumours about how other players had been threatened with DQ's due to non-payment of fees.

However, at the same time, it's totally clear that Magnus was a completely deserved winner of the trophy - he played incredibly.

The clarifications in this thread by Bruce clear things up, and the situation was clearly dealt with fairly by Tim.

As an aside argument (and not one I strongly feel should be applied here)
The argument about Spirit of the Game is v. interesting - yes, it's spirited to let the guy win. But, is it not UNspirited by the non-fee paying winner to presume that, despite flouting PDGA regulations (which everyone else has adhered to), he deserves a place in the tournament?

A similar example from Ultimate - I once played in a losing team at WUCC, where we lost in sudden death.
We pulled to the winning team, and they dropped their pull.
We let them pick it up and maintain possession. They scored and won.
We famously became known for being "spirited" for letting them play following a dropped pull.
What nobody ever talked about was how UNspirited the opposing team was by requesting us to break a very very clear rule, one designed specifically to put pressure on the receiver of a pull - how come they got away with their lack of spirit?

My point? Spirit is about abiding by the rules. Whether abiding by them means the rules work for or against you.

Final point: I have been guilty of being unspirited in the past, at last year's British Open, by trying to rigidly apply rules in order to press home an advantage. Fortunately, Toby overruled me, and I apologised to the parties involved after the event, but learnt a big lesson...

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:31 am
by Scuttler
TheGroover wrote:Final point: I have been guilty of being unspirited in the past, at last year's British Open, by trying to rigidly apply rules in order to press home an advantage. Fortunately, Toby overruled me, and I apologised to the parties involved after the event, but learnt a big lesson...
I wasn't there, so I'm not aware of the situation, but why should expecting the rules to be applied at a major tournament be seen as unspirited?

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:41 am
by bruce
TheGroover wrote:As an aside argument (and not one I strongly feel should be applied here)
The argument about Spirit of the Game is v. interesting - yes, it's spirited to let the guy win. But, is it not UNspirited by the non-fee paying winner to presume that, despite flouting PDGA regulations (which everyone else has adhered to), he deserves a place in the tournament?
My point is that he has done nothing wrong. Tim quite clearly stated that players had to be current PDGA members, or that their country rep assured him that the membership was being processed. The latter is exactly what happened.
If I ask Dunc for membership, and he starts processing it thinking he'll get the money later because the tournament is the next day, is that my fault or not having paid? No.

Additionally, the requirements Tim put in place are not PDGA regulations. Under PDGA rules you are fully entitled to join the PDGA at the event, and the reporting spreadsheet has a sheet set aside for precisely this function.

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:46 am
by TheGroover
bruce wrote:
TheGroover wrote:As an aside argument (and not one I strongly feel should be applied here)
The argument about Spirit of the Game is v. interesting - yes, it's spirited to let the guy win. But, is it not UNspirited by the non-fee paying winner to presume that, despite flouting PDGA regulations (which everyone else has adhered to), he deserves a place in the tournament?
My point is that he has done nothing wrong.
I agree! Magnus and Tim did nothing wrong - my aside was a hypothetical point.
bruce wrote:Additionally, the requirements Tim put in place are not PDGA regulations. Under PDGA rules you are fully entitled to join the PDGA at the event, and the reporting spreadsheet has a sheet set aside for precisely this function.
Even more info I didn't know - which makes it all the more fine for Magnus to be in the tourny.

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:47 am
by TheGroover
Scuttler wrote:
TheGroover wrote:Final point: I have been guilty of being unspirited in the past, at last year's British Open, by trying to rigidly apply rules in order to press home an advantage. Fortunately, Toby overruled me, and I apologised to the parties involved after the event, but learnt a big lesson...
I wasn't there, so I'm not aware of the situation, but why should expecting the rules to be applied at a major tournament be seen as unspirited?
Because the way I was trying to apply the rules at the Open last year was a technicality and also a breach of Spirit (long story....)

Re: Non PDGA member wins

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:21 pm
by Tim
Ace_Hole wrote:Sorry to pose a strange question, but how does a non PDGA member win the PDGA memers only British Opens Adv. Ams comp????

:shock:
Mr Ace Hole,

This issue was dealt with appropriately at the Tournament and i was given assurances by the Norwegian PDGA Rep that Magnus's membership was in the process of being renewed. This is acceptable.

Now considering some infractions of regulations and rules that i was aware of during the event, i would suggest that this matter is dropped.

Tim tired of whinging Ams

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:36 pm
by DILLIGAF
Thanks for the final verdict.

If this info was passed on at the time, the 'strange question' would not have arisen.

consider it dropped.