EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

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EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Charlie Mead » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:13 pm

EDGC 2016 will be held in Finland in August. It is the premier European Team Championship for European member states. Each country is allocated a number of slots dependent on membership of the PDGA. This year Team GB has 9 places. There are 7 Divisional Champioship titles to be decided - Open, Masters, Grandmasters, Senior Grandmasters, Women, Women Masters and Juniors.
Selection for the GB team will be based on a combination of three factors - performance on the BDGA Tour in 2015, PDGA ratings and likelihood of a podium finish in players division.
This is a Team event and we will want to improve on our place from 2014 in Geneva.

Look out for more info on the Forum and Facebook page as well as the official EDGC Website http://www.edgc2016.com
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by mat cutler » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:35 pm

only 9 spots total across all 7 divisions! That's a shame

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by mat cutler » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:53 pm

how did italy get 3 qualification spots - 3 current pdga members! iceland with 6 the right amount of members but only 8 rated over 900!

charlie might be worth challenging the allocations!

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by bruce » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:23 am

There is a complicated formula for getting to the allocation that all the countries have signed up to for the last few champs. It takes into account that we want to be inclusive of developing countries, PDGA membership numbers, player ratings and previous championship performance. 3 places is kind of a baseline for existing DG countries as it allows 1*MPO, 1*FPO and 1*MJ1. That is reduced for truly emerging countries with no record of attendance (e.g. Portugal).

Fact is, the number of spots remains the same, the number of countries involved has gone up, and our historic performance at the EC's does not merit any special consideration.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Charlie Mead » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:11 pm

The reality is that the number of slots is fixed for this year. It is unlikely to change in any great respect without two things happening; 1) We increase the number of PDGA members in the UK and 2) We do better in all Divisions than in the past.

Since 2001 we have performed consistently in the Masters Division (Del, Liam and I taking podium places in Oslo, Beaminster) and In GrandMasters (I took titles in 2005, Nokia and 2007 Belgium and Del in Colchester 2012) with a single Senior Grand place (I was 2nd in Geneva). What we need to happen is higher place finishes in all divisions, specially Open - it doesn't need to be a podium but does need to be better than 30th!

All members of the Team this year will be made aware of this - every shot in every round counts to the next tournament - not enormously but it could just be enough.

Personally I am still really pleased that we have a multi-division Major in Europe that is not just chasing the money. We need to make the most of what we have -
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by bruce » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:54 pm

I agree Charlie, I really hope the ECs can retain their unique inclusive character ongoing
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by BOF » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:37 pm

Charlie,

as we discussed loosely at QP, I (Conor) would interested in being considered for the EDGC this year.

With family life, holidays, finances and calendars to manage, it would be useful to know if I was even in the running for a spot in the squad - either at Masters or, for the first time, GrandMaster division!

Could you let me know how things currently stand with regard to Team GB and whether I should start saving my pocket money, please? (Or who I have to assassinate to guarantee myself a spot!)

I appreciate that August is a long way off, but if I am to sow the seed of an idea that I might be going to Finland during the school summer holidays, I need to sow it soon.

I'll also need the time to recover from the physical and emotional injuries I'll sustain from my wife and children when they discover that Daddy could be off on a Disc Golf jolly when he should be holidaying with his family and helping entertain the children...

Thanks in advance for any further information on this.

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EDIT: having just read a little about Oulu and northern Finland, I note with trepidation the abundance of blood-sucking insects that appear during the short summers up there!
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Jester » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:44 pm

Charlie Mead wrote: Selection for the GB team will be based on a combination of three factors - performance on the BDGA Tour in 2015, PDGA ratings and likelihood of a podium finish in players division.
An evolution away from just using Tour performance of the previous season for EC Team selection could be a good thing. I'd welcome a fuller discussion on the various options available in this Forum where all players may have their say.

As regards the EC 2016 team, following the precedent of several years past, the time to agree any change in qualification criteria would have been prior to the start of the 2015 season, and not to try and force that in now.

It would be highly unfair on all players to have the selection criteria changed post-qualification. At best it's clumsy, at worst it could appear like an attempt to manipulate the qualifiers, and I'm sure players and the Board alike would rather avoid even the suggestion of that taking place.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by BOF » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:18 pm

Good points, Jester.

With 9 places across 7 divisions there will always be winners and losers in terms of who is selected.
Inevitably availability to attend the tournament is often (understandably) a major factor in the final team make-up.
However, who decides how many players are to be entered in each division, and thus the allocation of places across the divisions, has never really been clear to me.

A clarification would be appreciated ahead of next season, and even for the 2015 season!

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Jester » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:05 pm

Agree, BOF. I'm eligible to play Masters now, so I'm very interested to see what the order of place allocation according to Tour 2015 results is.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have no idea if I'm in the running for an Open or Masters place at EC 2016, I just feel that it being suggested the selection criteria can be altered this late in the day is not acceptable. We all started the 2015 season knowing the Tour results would be the way places are allocated for EC 2016, and to be fair to all players that's how it should stay.

Any changes to the selection criteria discussed now could be made ready for the 2017 season-qualification for EC 2018.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Charlie Mead » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:20 pm

This has just arrived from EDGC HQ. Simply put it is Staus Quo for 2016:

Juniors’ division (MJ1) age limit is 19 and under years old
As of January 2016 the official age limit of MJ1 division is 18 years old or younger. However the age limit was changed by the PDGA so late in the 2015 that the qualification for the EDGC 2016 had already started before the information about the upcoming changes arrived. The EDGC 2016 will have a rules exception, which allows 19 year olds to compete in the MJ1 division. We’re currently in the process of acquiring the official PDGA sanctioning and have applied for the exemption as well.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Charlie Mead » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:40 pm

I am very interested in hearing all views on selection of the eam for 2016. It will ultimately be my choice but this will be in close discussion and agreement with the board, taking into account all views. There is no wavering in our determination to apply the criteria of previous years - a player's finishing position on the 2015 tour will be our main criteria. However, as BOF has stated, with 9 players and 7 divisions this poses some critical questions about how best to represent our country.

In the past some slots have been filled by amateur players just because Open players did not take up their allocated slots. We have had very little representation from Women even when we hosted EDGC in 2012. Our greatest success has been in the older divisions - Masters, Grand and Seniors - and if we are to make progress in this competition over the coming years we need to do better in the Team competition as well as increase our PDGA membership total. To do this we need to select those players in their divisions that are likely to achieve higher points than in, say Open play.

For BOF (potential Grandmaster), Jester (potential Master) or Ivan (Grandmaster) and Sue (Womens Master) they all have credible cases based on their BDGA Tour results last year. Add Del (Grand) Myself (Senior Grand) , Jonny (Master) and James (open) and that leaves only one more slot - so what about the other Open players let alone Women and Juniors? I am more than mindful of the need to develop future talent in both these divisions - but who will be excluded if they are to be included??

Selecton criteria has to have more than one dimension if the first set of criteria does not deliver what is needed to win - my view is that we need to do a lot better than Geneva in 2014 if we are to increase our allocation for 2018 and beyond.

Let me know what you think?
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by bruce » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:38 am

I think Charlie is absolutely right here, as Open players we have not made a great case for attendance.

The divisions are allocated within the tournament with Open as the majority division, and historically we have divided the the GB places broadly in line with the size of the divisions (although a few years back we were allocated specific division numbers, rather than a lump sum). Clearly we don't have to do that, and as we all know that there are only a small handful of players competitive even in the BDGA Open division, if there are cases that players in other divisions would be more competitive then it only seems logical to favour those.

Clearly when choosing between 2 players within a division the 2015 Tour performance has to be the first breaker, as has been the precedent. It could change for 2018 to be rating or other method, published in advance. This might still be problematic, as we don't have every EC division on the UK Tour and, taking Jester as an example, how do we handle players who were ineligible to compete in a Tour division in 2015 (Masters) but are eligible for the ECs in 2016?
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by mat cutler » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:58 pm

All valid points Charlie but why does the decision ultimately come down to you?

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by BOF » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:51 pm

It will ultimately be my choice but this will be in close discussion and agreement with the board, taking into account all views.
I, too, am curious as to the validity of this statement.

If your choice agrees with the board then it is, effectively, the Board's decision.

If your choice does not agree with the Board's, then your statement would be untrue.

I think clarification is definitely needed here, for the sake of transparency and for the sake of those who may be hoping to win a spot at any future such event.

Is the Team Captain chosen by the Board and acts on behalf of them or in consultation with them?

Is the Team Captain selected by some other process and is independent of the Board?

Apologies for all the questions, but we do need to encourage our players and give them something concrete to aim for. (Metaphorically, not literally!)

I'd love to be able to attend such an event (in a location and at a time that fits in with family life) - but if, in a year that this was possible for me, I happened to win the Masters Division (we're still talking hypothetically here...) and was told there was no spot for me because my chances of doing well weren't as good as those in other divisions, I would be extremely disappointed (or words to that effect!)

Enlightenment sought.

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Jester » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 pm

I’m sure there is some Board discussion about this hot topic going on behind the scenes, I’m looking forward to reading the details of that.

EC Team Captain:
- As I understand it (based on what’s happened in past years) the EC Team Captain is an administrative role filled by a player attending the EC event. The player takes responsibility for the team at the event, thus it has to filled be someone playing in the EC that is captain, it obviously cannot be decided upon until after the qualified players have taken up their place on the team or not. Thus the Captain does not have any involvement in team section, but merely helps those already in the team by e.g. being the communication point with the organisers, overseeing team shirt manufacture, attending Captain’s meetings at the event and bringing any relevant news back to the team etc.

EC Team Coordinator:
- The EC Team Coordinator didn’t previously exist, my recollection is Charlie created and put himself forward for this at the AGM at Whitcombe Oct 2014. I recall his pitch was he would help with the organisation of the EC team, the understanding being he would take on tasks that previously fell to the EC Team Captain. There was no mention of becoming the sole decision maker of which BDGA members would get to play at future EC events. If this particular ambition had been raised I imagine it would have generated considerable discussion, and possibly a different outcome of the decision on filling this new post. Additionally, as far as I can remember, there was no mention of the criteria used to decide which players made the team changing from that which was established years prior (that is the previous season’s tour results, with the elected Board ruling how to distribute slots across divisions).


Memories can play tricks, so I thought I’d check the 2014 AGM minutes to see exactly what was agreed regarding Charlie and a role in EC team coordination. Unfortunately there is nothing recorded in an otherwise fully-minuted meeting: http://bit.ly/bdga-agm2014. I thought perhaps the Forum thread might have the discussion, but again there is nothing about this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1793&hilit=agm

Hmm, perhaps I’m wrong and Charlie actually got BDGA member approval for EC involvement at a different meeting? Maybe it was at the 2015 AGM that I wasn’t at. I’d like to check the minutes from that meeting, but unfortunately they don’t appear to have been posted on the thread along with all the other reports. Does anyone have a copy they can share please? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1895&p=23217&hilit=agm#p23217

If this is all minuted at the 2015 AGM then hopefully it will shed some light. If this isn’t minuted however, or if the discussion about this actually hasn’t happened, then perhaps this is the time for Charlie to fully outline his aspirations for the EC Coordinator role so that BDGA members may have their say on it. I imagine many others may share Matt and BOF’s views, I know I do.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by Dan » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:08 pm

This is all very interesting. As far as I could tell, in previous years most people who wanted to go could because of the cost/time barriers for others eligible. Maybe that's not actually been the case and it sounds like it certainly won't be going forward if we have fewer spots allocated and more people interested in going. 9 compared to Finlands 30 spots doesn't take us very far does it?

As with the USDGC case, I think knowing players intent would certainly help a lot here from people who are/might be eligible to qualify. Getting a list of interested players might be the first step in organising this years team. Charlie you listed off a few players who might not be interested in playing Euros. Who knows, James might have a job by then which means he can't make it... :P

I am certainly keen to play and think I have a pretty decent case to get a spot. If based on your reckoning, only one spot is given to Open division because in years gone by open players haven't excelled, I would have played every tournament last year with a stronger bid to win that spot. Last EDGC the open division was about 45% of the field. Only giving one spot seem rough given our eligible pool of players for open ( i.e. open and all non-restricted am divisions) make up the vast majority of UK disc golfers.

I'd love to know or else I'm going to investigate representing Ireland...

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by LostMeow » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:22 pm

I don't think the 2015 AGM was minuted. I couldn't attend and made a plea for someone to step up and take minutes, but I don't think anyone did.

Coordination/selection of the EC team falls into a black hole because it isn't specified anywhere. Charlie has taken the pro-active step of leading the process (as part of his PDGA Coordinator role) but it clearly needs to be nailed down for 2018. For the 2016 EDGC I guess it will have to come down to Charlie + the Board to make a ruling. TourStats have to be the primary route for qualification; however, nothing has ever been written down for how we deal with division priorities (9 players into 7 divisions), so some (collective) judgement call is going to have to come in at some point, I'm afraid.
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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by seamus » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:04 pm

This was the document presented on Facebook to advertise the position of UK Pdga Rep..

I'd like to think the EDGC team selection will have very little to do with Bdga Tour performance as it would put many players living on the fringes of the Tour at a disadvantage.



Requirements for BDGA International Co-ordinator

Below are the official responsibilities for the BDGA international Co-ordinator. Along with these responsibilities the international co-ordinator will also be involved in the team for Euro 2016, the World Disc Golf Championships and future involvement in the Disc Golf World Tour.

Participation in the PDGA Europe yahoo group discussions on current topics

Country vote on any PDGA Europe and International disc golf topics requiring group decision

Coordination of PDGA activity and promotion in country, including the distribution of PDGA Europe resources, tools, and process details to TDs and members (Guide to PDGA Europe, International Event Report form, on-line membership and event instructions, officials tests, etc.).

The handling of PDGA related requests from TDs and members in their country

Communication with PDGA regarding country issues including corrections to PDGA member and event data, reporting on any significant developments or problems, and identifying possible areas for PDGA support

Facilitation of new and updated information on country disc golf courses in the PDGA Course Directory


Anyone who is interested in this position please send a small piece on your qualifications for the job and your aims as international director to the BDGA (theboard@bdga.org.uk).

We look forward to hearing from you.

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Re: EUROPEAN DISC GOLF CHAMPIONSHIPS 2016

Post by james » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:19 pm

Just a quick piece here.

We are currently in discussion as to what the make up of the team will look like. This will come down to a board decision but as Seamus has pointed out the role of the international co-ordinator does include the selection process for the EDGC team. We are all involved in the process and no final decisions will be made without an OK from the board. I feel it's important to recognise that whilst tour performance is the main category for selection this does not necessarily decide which divisions have priority and how we decide to fill the divisions.
Personally I think we should focus on trying to gain the most points possible so that we can potentially have more places for next time.
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