BDGA # 6 - Bristol Open - May 22/23

Does what it says on the tin!
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What tournamnet format would you prefer to play?

5 x 13 holes (3 sat, 2 sunday + 7 hole final)
3
19%
3 x18 holes + 9 hole final with long walks between 2 seperate 9 holes
5
31%
3 x(2*12), no final
8
50%
 
Total votes: 16

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rhatton1
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Post by rhatton1 » Fri May 14, 2010 9:26 pm

LostMeow wrote:Wow, this one went mad today!

I think it's good that there's an element of choice there - that players can play up a division if they want.

Personally speaking, I kind of agree with Steve, and I wanted to move up to AdvAm even before I knew my rating because that's the level of golf I'm aspiring to at the moment. I do think it's a little odd if you have players who have shown themselves to be 870+ rated dropping down into IntAm (by losing rating points) and getting a couple of wins, as I think of IntAm as a division for up-and-coming, rather than had-a-bad-couple-of-tournaments-recently. There are also limited bragging rights to winning the bottom division...
Arrrrghhhghg.

Its not about winning, nor bragging about winning. Its about gaining experience to make you a better player. And to say that you can't get that experience by dropping down a division is ridiculous. No one is losing points on purpose to play in a lower division, nor are they looking to get a couple of wins. They are making the decision to gain experience where they can. Experience will beat raw ability in most situations.

Anyway, Matt tried to keep us on topic, this really is a discussion for another thread.

So, Bristol looks like its's going to be good!!
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Foxy
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Post by Foxy » Sat May 15, 2010 7:34 am

I think I qualify as one of the 'new QP players'. I've played one tournament on my home course, & my inaugural rating means that I'll be playing in the Adv Ams at Bristol. On the one hand, I'm happy playing in the division that my rating qualifies me for, on the other hand I feel that I could do with a few more tournaments, particularly on new courses, at Int Am level before my standard can be accurately gauged.

Looking forward to Bristol. Matt, I've decided to bring my tent so I owe another £10. Want me to do a bank transfer or give you cash on Friday?

And, as I wife usually does the honours, can I have some help putting my tent up.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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West
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Post by West » Sat May 15, 2010 2:44 pm

Right, my turn :)

I started off thinking I'm not moving down to Int Am as I've always played Adv Am since we re-jigged the divisions a few years back. Since then, as you can see from my rated rounds, I'm not an Adv Am player (yet!). Like Bruce said I'm Int Am with a hint of good playing opposed to Adv Am with some poor personal results. I personally don't care that I've been playing for 6 years and have competition experience. Int Am is a recognised division; and yes it's for people to start in and move up if they want/can. However, it's also there for people who are at that level ... period! :)
Steve wrote:I thought the aim of Int Ams was to give the lower end of the skill base an achievable final, rather than the distant ad ams or even open division finals.

Yes let them play one tournament at int am's if they must. But if they clearly shot Ad am scores then next tournament move up! rating or no rating. Jed anyone

Letting someone play in Int Am's who clearly is shooting Ad ams scores just so they can have a taste of comps is stupid and as I pointed out earlier it insults the genuine int ams.
The aim of the Int Am division is to give the lower end of the skill/ability level an achieveable final. Something to aim for. This is determined by the players rating from historical results. If you look at my historical results you will see that I'm at the bottom of the Adv Am. In fact on most occasions a chunk of the Int ams have beaten me. So why can't I play in that division?

I'm not the only one moving down, as their rating allows, Jonnie Burden is also dropping down into the Int Am division. Are you saying that he has too much experience (he's been playing since the light bulb was invented) that even tho his rating says he can be Int Am that he has to play Adv Am?

Getting back to the point of this thread; I'm looking forward to playing a new course, seeing everyone, having fun and hopefully improving my rating :)
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james
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Post by james » Sun May 16, 2010 10:48 am

thought i might throw myself in here, you may remember about 2 1/2 years ago i was playing adv ams and doing ok-ish but nothing near competitive with the final and i was not looking like improving as i was nearly last in every tournament. I decided i should move down to Int ams, the next two tournaments i won and came second and it was by no means an easy thing it waas hard fought both times, but experience of real competitive golf was important and improved my game massively, and then the next year i went on to win 3 tournaments in adv ams.
i cannot express enough how much the experience of finals and competitive golf helped improve my game and make me a better player. move down if you feel you should because it eventually benefits your cause :P :D
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MampiSwift
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Post by MampiSwift » Sun May 16, 2010 1:22 pm

If westys rating says he should move down then so be it , theres no reason why he shouldnt!!!

If he was to stay up which he obviously can do then it would be the same as for example Burnley in the premiership saying actually you know what we think we should stay in the premiership because we want to!!!

If his ratings dropped below the mark then he should have every right to play in the int ams division!!

And trust me he'll have more than enough competition in that division won't you Westy!!!

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Post by Steve » Sun May 16, 2010 1:59 pm

Mampi Swift wrote:
And trust me he'll have more than enough competition in that division won't you Westy!!!
On the flip side of this, you will also be competing against 2 lads who have been playing for about 2 years, with ratings of 789 and 784 in the same division. They probably wont be so much competition for you. :)
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Post by ManicMinerUK » Sun May 16, 2010 2:33 pm

I can't think of many sports that have divisions like this where you don't end up with the top end of a lower division being stronger than the bottom end of the division above.

I keep thinking that part of this problem is because there's no "Recreational" division in UK disc golf. I take Steve's point about the 780 rated players in the same division as Westy, but how far would you take that argument?

I intend to play in the QP august tournament. I am a terrible player and will very likely finish last. Should most of the Int Am division step up so that its fair? The Int Am division in the UK is "everyone else" but really it shouldn't be, it should be the Intermediate amateur players. The problem is less that experienced players are playing in Int Am and more that first timers and inexperienced players don't have a rec divison for us "happy with a bogey" players.

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Post by Steve » Sun May 16, 2010 3:49 pm

mat cutler wrote:only 12 spots and 4 days left to register!

matt Cutler
Adam Storr
Mark Fleetham
Neal Pickett
Jester Wilson
Phil Wood
Danny Farndon
Tom Lowes
Ross Davies
Neil Webber
Sophie Southgate
Chris Rowland
paul cooper
David Allaker
Pete "Village" Black
martin smith
Andy Cotgreave
sue underwood
Ivan Bromage
Dan Waxman
Tom Soper
Steve Broster
dan eagle
Glen Evans
Michael Davies
richard wood
richard o'connell
jerry Andrew
Paul Holden
James Luton
Francis Wilson
Chris O'Brien
james robson
Daniel Ryan
Timothy Emmott
Richard Hatton
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform ... c1Z3OWc6MA

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Post by james » Sun May 16, 2010 8:53 pm

Mampi Swift wrote: for example Burnley in the premiership saying actually you know what we think we should stay in the premiership because we want to!!!
that is a brilliant example, i think it should be manditory that you up if you're rating is above the limit that you move up, but if you want to stay in a division thats fine, and if you start the year in adv ams and you're rating dips, then move down if you want! its you're choice!
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LostMeow
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Post by LostMeow » Sun May 16, 2010 9:07 pm

james wrote:
Mampi Swift wrote: for example Burnley in the premiership saying actually you know what we think we should stay in the premiership because we want to!!!
that is a brilliant example, i think it should be manditory that you up if you're rating is above the limit that you move up, but if you want to stay in a division thats fine, and if you start the year in adv ams and you're rating dips, then move down if you want! its you're choice!
Um? Lost in translation?

Let me ask this: if Burnley were given the choice of staying up in the Premiership or dropping down, do you think they would choose to drop down because it would give them better experience of 'pressure situations'...? Or would they stay up to play against better teams? Personally I think they would stay up every time, both for the prestige and the challenge. (and the money, but that's not so relevant here...)
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rhatton1
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Post by rhatton1 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:08 am

LostMeow wrote:Personally I think they would stay up every time, both for the prestige and the challenge. (and the money, but that's not so relevant here...)
They would stay up for the money with prestige being a very distant second. Now money isn't an issue here so Prestige? On the prestige front their fan base wouldn't allow them to move down if they had the choice to stay up, . Well, Westy, apart from his Mum, who I'm sure does love him, doesn't have a fan base and so fortunately is able to make the decision to move down and improve as a player. How many football teams have you seen relegated who then bounced back the next season one heck of a lot stronger, they get a chance to regroup, find their feet, remember how to play and become better as a result(yes there have also been many that went into freefall, but generally this was due to financial reasons so not particularly relevant to the analogy)

Tom, if you were so determined to play Adv. Am and saw Int am purely as a stepping stone why didn't you play adv at Essex? You had had tournament experience at Int last year, surely then that was enough? Or did you maybe think there was more to be gained from coming top card at int than there was bottom card adv?

As James has said the drop to Int hugely improved his game(yes it also helped that he went from being 5 foot tall to 6 foot something with a cannon like arm, but he would probably agree the experience gained was just as important!)

And for Foxy, I may be wrong here but I thought that you had to play more than one tournament before being forced to move up by rating, I'm sure we've discussed this before somewhere but can't find it now. Could someone in the know confirm if Danny can play int or has to play adv.?

so anyway. This weekend 'm going to be bringing a huge 6 man tent (as its the only one I have) It has lots of compartments (It's a bit like something out of Harry Potter) there will be some compartments available to anyone else that needs one if they want.
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West
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Post by West » Mon May 17, 2010 8:40 am

rhatton1 wrote:Well, Westy, apart from his Mum, who I'm sure does love him, doesn't have a fan base and so fortunately is able to make the decision to move down and improve as a player.
She's not much of a fan ;) But to be honest; name one person who has "fans" on our tour ;-)
rhatton1 wrote:This weekend 'm going to be bringing a huge 6 man tent (as its the only one I have) It has lots of compartments (It's a bit like something out of Harry Potter) there will be some compartments available to anyone else that needs one if they want.
Any chance you're taking this to the BO? And any chance I can shotgun a spot for that event? :D
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Post by james » Mon May 17, 2010 11:48 am

I dunno i think Burnley might stay up for a while but then move down, you're right Rich i can vouch for the experience helping aswell as ther growing :D
pressure situations are the only thing that teach you how to be a good golfer i think, you can do as much practice as you want but if you cant hold your nerve in a pressure situation (e.g me vs rick rick adv am final burnlaw last year, he lead by 4 going in and lost by 4 coming out, sorry mate :P) then you wont succeed simple!
its not about how well you can play its about how you can hold your nerve in comparison to other players and final experience gives you that, why do we think derek holds it together in the final all the time, he has played for like 1000 years!
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Post by Village » Tue May 18, 2010 8:48 am

A question about the tournament (sorry to drag this thread back on track......):

are there toilet/shower facilities at the camp site?
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Post by mat cutler » Tue May 18, 2010 12:41 pm

toilet but no shower unfortunately

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Post by West » Tue May 18, 2010 12:51 pm

When should we start expecting the players info in our emails matt? Need to make sure it doesn't get swallowed by the spam filter :-)
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Post by Village » Tue May 18, 2010 12:55 pm

hhmmmmm...... spam!
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Post by mat cutler » Tue May 18, 2010 4:41 pm

URGENT BRISTOL OPEN REGISTRATION AND PAYMENT DEADLINE IS 11PM THIS EVENING

If you still want to play please register online asap and do a bank transfer asap. and email or pm me confirming please.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform ... c1Z3OWc6MA

Of those registered I am still awaiting payment or notification of payment being actioned / contact arranging alternative payment from;

james robson
dan waxman
dan eagle

your registration will be pulled unless you contact me before 11pm this evening. 07986461345 (text please as I'm at ultimate training and then out for dinner!)

Groups will be posted around midnight this evening.

The course booklet has been emailed to westy and hopefully he should have it uploaded to the bdga docs page soon.

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Post by mat cutler » Tue May 18, 2010 4:44 pm

registered players (red payment not recieved)

matt Cutler
Adam Storr
Mark Fleetham
Neal Pickett
Jester Wilson
Phil Wood
Danny Farndon
Tom Lowes
Ross Davies
Neil Webber
Sophie Southgate
Chris Rowland
paul cooper
David Allaker
Pete "Village" Black
martin smith
Andy Cotgreave
sue underwood
Ivan Bromage
Dan Waxman
Tom Soper
Steve Broster
dan eagle
Glen Evans
Michael Davies
richard wood
richard o'connell
jerry Andrew
Paul Holden
James Luton
Francis Wilson
Chris O'Brien
james robson
Daniel Ryan
Timothy Emmott
Richard Hatton
Jed Farrell
Joy Davies
Aaron Webby
Jonny Morris
Paul Stoddart

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Post by mat cutler » Tue May 18, 2010 4:46 pm

Can I have some volunteers for the rules committee please....

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