2010 National Tour

Does what it says on the tin!
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West
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2010 National Tour

Post by West » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:42 pm

Provisional Tour 2010 (confirmed unless otherwise stated)

Frostbreaker 30th/31st Jan '10
Quarry Park Spring Fling 20/21 Feb '10
Burnlaw Snowbow 27th/28th March '10
Essex 17th/18th April '10
Mull 1st/2nd May '10
Bristol 22nd/23rd May '10
Quarry Park Open 14th/15th Aug '10
Burnlaw Equinox 11th/12th Sept '10
Croydon Cyclone 25th/26th Sept '10

British Open @ Whitcombe, Beaminster 3rd/4th July '10

I know this has been posted in another thread, but I wanted to make it an annoucement and have it as the first post in the thread so updates are easy to find! :)

EDIT
Please note the change in dates for the past 2 events of the season. Many thanks to Garry and his family for being flexible to help us continue to have the 9 events this year! :D
Last edited by West on Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by West » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Frostbreaker invite will be posted soon, just sorting out a couple of bits and reviewing the draft :-)
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:53 am

Shame that no tour events are in June/July considering the weather in the UK.
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Post by richard » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:00 am

Steve wrote:Shame that no tour events are in June/July considering the weather in the UK.
Makes a lot of sense tho with the world cup on. Also, from CDGC and Essexs point of view, we have major grass length problems at that time of year.
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:48 am

World cup my posterior!
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Post by Jester » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:06 am

Steve wrote:Shame that no tour events are in June/July considering the weather in the UK.
Not a Tour event, but the biggest event in the UK, the British Open, is on 2-4 July @ Whitcombe.
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:28 am

Seems to be less and less of the usual UK touring crowd at the Open, I doubt I'll bother with it in 2010. :/

The 6 week gap either side of that event is a hell of a hole in the centre of the season.
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Post by Jester » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:38 am

Steve wrote:Seems to be less and less of the usual UK touring crowd at the Open, I doubt I'll bother with it in 2010. :/

The 6 week gap either side of that event is a hell of a hole in the centre of the season.
Perfect space for a Shrewbury Tour event then?
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:48 am

Are you talking about kingsland or mereside?

Mereside would be perfect in the summer (grass cut regulary) but is only 9 holes, so no suitable for a tour event, Kingsland has long grass issues in the summer.
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Post by bruce » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:59 am

There are also this bunch to try and dodge:
Norwegian Open - June 5-6
Sweden Twin Lakes - June 19-20
British Open - July 2-4
Stockholm - July 10-11
Skelleftea - Scandinavian Open (not Euro tour) July 15-18
PDGA Worlds July 28-August 2

But at the end of the day, we ask for bids and when is suitable for venues. Public spaces (Bristol/Essex) tend to be fuller during the peak months, grass cutting as mentioned is an issue elsewhere, the BO has filled the usual summer Whitcombe spot etc
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:07 pm

Pushing back the QP event at the same time though.

How many UK touring players make these european events ? I hardly think rearanging the UK tour to fit in with these is practical for the sake of 5-6 people who want to go.

Not looking for an argument. Just thought it was a "shame", as summer months are more likely to attract new comers to the sport (who wants to throw in the cold and wet).
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Post by ketchup » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:42 pm

I agree that a 2 month gap, and not taking advantage of potentially the best weather the UK has to offer in the year does seem a bit of a waste.

I know i can only speak for myself as a poorly paid mechanic, but most of the european tour events are completely impossible for me to do finacially, which i why i try and support as many of the UK tour events that i can.

If we want to introduce the sport to more kids etc, surely having events during the school holidays is the perfect time to maximise numbers? It does seem on face value that our events void fits in nicely with all those dates for the euro tour events you posted up Bruce, not implying anything of course :wink:

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Post by Jester » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:21 pm

What we all need to remember here is that scheduling is a nightmare. I did it for 5 years and it was the single biggest, thankless task the DoC has.

From trying to take into account TDs personal circumstances that affect their availability to run an event, to the condition of venues at certain times of the year (as mentioned the length of the grass at Croydon or Essex being full of sunbathing students).

I copped a shed-load of flack the year I filled up the summer with events form players who complained there was no way they'd be able to play all of them as they like to due to other commitments/holiday/family events that all fill up the popular summer months.

At the end of the day the schedule is what it is, I strongly encourage everyone to consider running a tour event of their own in 2010/11 but contact Westy NOW about it so you can realistically assess if your venue can support it and if not what alternatives might be possible. That way there will be lots of choices for Westy to juggle when trying to plan an even schedule.
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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:50 pm

I think that the 2 months 3 week (to be pedantic) gap if you don't attend the British Open needs filling.

After the great turnout and support for On the side disc golf yesterday at the winter doubles, I would be willing to run a small (4x9,2x9 and 9 final) 2 day event in Shrewsbury at our mereside course. Obviously 9 holes restricts players to the event. Tour or Non Tour it would definately fill a large void in the calender.

DISCuss? :)
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Re: 2010 National Tour

Post by DILLIGAF » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:09 am

Provisional Tour 2010 (confirmed unless otherwise stated)

Frostbreaker 30th/31st Jan '10
Quarry Park Spring Fling TBC
Burnlaw Snowbow 27th/28th March '10
Essex 17th/18th April '10
Mull 1st/2nd May '10
Bristol 22nd/23rd May '10
Quarry Park Open 14th/15th Aug '10
Croydon Cyclone 11th/12th Sept '10
Burnlaw Equinox 25th/26th Sept '10

British Open @ Whitcombe, Beaminster 3rd/4th July '10
hi

just looking for a bit of clarifiaction, when i raised the possibility of having more comps and running them closer together i was informed that this would alienate the 'core' players. how does this new stucture differ from that suggested apart from the large gap? would it be possible in the 2months and 3 weeks gap (that steve is pedantic in mentioning :wink: ) that we can have additional events should a TD be willing to undertake this??

thank you for the informative feedback in advance

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Post by West » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:21 am

Right ... This has taken me a couple of drafts to get right and I don't have this kinda time so read carefully.

-----------

A couple of things:

1) As Jester said, organising the national tour each year takes a lot of time and is a bit painful at times.

2) The general rule of thumb is to try and leave a few weeks between events so that people can sort out their home lives, earn brownie points from the wives to be allowed to be away for an entire weekend etc.

3) It doesn't matter whether its summer or not, TDs can only run dates when the location allows and they are free to do so. For example, Croydon has to be done after they have had the grass cut and Essex in the uni holidays to reduce the likelyhood of accidents due to lots of students being about. Also, if somewhere hosts 2 events a year there is no point having them a month apart in the summer; people won't attend both.

4) Why are people complaining about the gap in the summer? This gives local clubs the good weather of the year to put on local events, one dayers, to get more people involved. The better weather won't put people off.

5) Someone mentioned about getting kids more involved in the game, this won't happen if we have tour events all weekends in the summer.

It's as simple as this ... kids and beginners won't/don't tour!

We have players at QP which have been playing a year and don't tour. I played at QP for almost 3 years before attending a tour event which wasn't at QP. Its a gradual thing! If you tried to do this while tour events where on, they would suffer from lack of attendance and/or the local event would suffer from lack of support from people who can play!

Remember, the national tour is the sharp end of the sport in this country. The best and/or most dedicated players compete to win. It is for introducing people to the sport but primarily its a competition and people take it very seriously.

6) People like to play events and go on holiday with their families, most of the time these don't co-inside with each other; if a choice had to be made in most instances the golf would be ditched. This would lead to poorly attended events etc. etc.

7) If you want to run a local event in the summer, run one! It just won't be a BDGA national tour event. We could look at doing some BDGA regional events, but this would have to be pitched to the board and agreed on (I just thought of that idea :-))

One thing to remember (which seems to be easily forgotten) all the board volunteer to do this, we don't get paid, we don't get discounts, we do this because we love the sport.

I hope this clarifies some things and if you have any questions or queries which you don't want to post on the forum then please contact either myself or the board via the contact page on the website.
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Post by ultiali » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:33 am

Not at all dissing the efforts of Westy and other TDs, but I think we take too much notice of the European events when planning our own events. Only a handful of players will go to these events and even less will go to more than one.

Westy makes the valid point that he can only work with the bids made by TD's but I think that TD's are probably influenced by the Euro tour dates when they put in bids.

I don't think we should mess with the schedule for next year and we should use the gap to best effect. Maybe for 2011 the BDGA could state that Euro tour dates won't be protected against bids for UK tour events.

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Post by Steve » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:57 am

Let me first start by saying that everyone apreciates the hard work put in by individuals to run events and we all understand that they are restricted by lots of factors.

One thing Adam from your post that made me slightly concerned.....
So kids wont tour but the BDGA's main concern is the tour? Maybe they need to stop the tours next year and have a re-think before the sport disapears up its own "bottom"?

Deleted the rest of the post. reason: CBA
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Post by West » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:17 pm

Generally speaking kids won't tour just purely due to lack of independance on transport etc. I'm not saying they don't but the under 19 division we have at the moment only exists because their parents play as well (correct me if I'm wrong).

When the sport gets to the point of parents investing in time and effort to get prodogies to tour events (such as with karting for example) then this will I'm sure change and the division structure will have to evolve with it.

The BDGA's concern is the sport in this country including the growth and outreach to new players, young and old. The tour is also important. Its all about balance.

Personally I think the outreach of the sport is part of the tour, but also an important part is down to local events around different courses and the clubs around them. These get the people in the locality involved in the game. From there they get experience and meet people, have fun and eventually, if they want to, take the step to attending a tour event.

Playing a casual round and having fun with your mates to playing in a weekend long tour event is a big step. This is why places like QP and Croydon and others have summer evening club meetings, doubles events and its the reason why we put the Hyzer cup together. To get people more involved, meet people, play different courses, learn how competition works etc. before dropping straight into a tour event.

The Cyclone this year was a good example of whats been going on in the club scene down in Croydon by how many people felt they could take the step to playing in their first tour event even after only playing for a few weeks / months.
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Post by bruce » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Steve wrote:One thing Adam from your post that made me slightly concerned.....
So kids wont tour but the BDGA's main concern is the tour? Maybe they need to stop the tours next year and have a re-think before the sport disapears up its own "bottom"?
The main concern of the BDGA's scheduling is the Tour. What else is there to schedule? And as Director of Competitions, what else should Westy be concerned with other than competition?!

Clearly the BDGA puts a great deal of emphasis on getting DG into schools, courses into the ground, and generally trying to grow the grass roots.

Regarding running one-day events, I've been meaning to write a suggestion for TDs to consider running non-BDGA-Tour, but PDGA sanctioned 1 day events. Requirements below.
For 2010, C Tier EuroChallenge Tour events are to submit a sanctioning fee of US$25. These fees are collected by PDGAHQ, and cover the costs incurred in servicing events and in generating player statistics and ratings.

In order to be listed in the PDGA Tour calendar, the event sanctioning fee must have been received by the Country Coordinator or by PDGAHQ.

Tournament Director must be a current PDGA member, it is also strongly recommended that he/she have passed the certified PDGA official’s test.

All EuroChallenge Tour events must meet the following timelines:
1 month prior to event: submission of event Sanctioning Fee to PDGA Country Coordinator for sending on to PDGAHQ.
1 month following event: submission of electronic PDGA event report including scores, payout, courses played, and other details to Country Coordinator and to PDGAHQ.
Events like the handicap at QP, or the Croydon Club Handicap Cup could be sanctioned; as long as the unadjusted scores are reported to the PDGA they can calculate ratings.

The $25 fee split between the attendees is likely to be quite a small amount, and unless you want to be covered by BDGA insurance, there would be no fees to pay to us.

These could be run at very little overhead/effort, course prep would not have to be as comprehensive as for Tour, no lunches, accommodation, trophies etc required.
The addition of PDGA sanctioning should entice players to travel a little further to play, I know I'd be more likely to head up to QP if I was going to get ratings...

Only caveat I'd add is that you do need 5 propogators to generate ratings; a propagator is a current member whose rating is over 799 and is based on at least 8 rounds
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