Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:40 am

Largely a numbers thing, yes. Do we need another division? Extra cost to TDs wrt prizes, more admin. More finals?

I think in order to keep the divisions a sensible size 4 divisions is too many. I did this breakdown of this year's events, based on:
Open >=940
Ams 900 -939
Ints 850 - 899
Recreational <=850

Basically Int stays exactly the same except renamed, you just spread the Open and Adv thinner over 3 divisions.

Now the PDGA have changed the way ratings are shown for past results, you can see what players were rated at the time of the event. Click through Powerstats to the event reports. You've got players at 840-860 near top of Adv, and players in the 900s near the bottom. In that ratings range scores are variable enough that you get that competitiveness and inconsistency but as the season progresses the cream rises to the top and ratings move to reflect that. I think 900-940 is too tight to decide your Am champ, it excludes players coming through and chucking a load of 920-940 rated players in there would risk the same as the Open div, same 5-7 faces in every Adv final.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by West » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:19 pm

*throws 2 pence in*

The way I see it is as follows:
* We're still not big enough to have 4 competitive divisions (although in the future its a possibility)
* Changing the boundaries for the current 3 sounds sensible to make the divisions similar sizes. However keeping choice to move up is still fine.
* Would welcome coming back on tour as a legitimate Int Am when I can and look to move back up to Adv; would be a good goal and help drive improvement from my side of things.
* As for Cash payouts; still don't think we're big enough to sustain this unless people start getting sponsorship from outside the entry fee which would add extra work to TDs for no apparent gain (at the moment).

*sits and watches the fallout*
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by Steve » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:38 pm

rhatton1 wrote:P.s. Loving Broster in "Novice"....
I'm going to rock it up in the Novices!

It will definately give me something to aim for now! (which can surely only make my golf better and better and better!!!!!) , and if it doesn't we can always open up another division to satisfy my need to win in order to keep me interested in competitive disc golf. :roll:

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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by Paul Holden » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:17 pm

rhatton1 wrote:I can't remember the reasons, i just know they made sense at the time (I've slept since :D ) Bruce?

I don't like the idea of increasing entrance fees for all in order to produce payout, but I can't see any issue in people being able to take winnings as cash instead of disc credit, apart from funding issues for the tournament - it's easier to give away a bulk bought disc that cost £5 as opposed to £7 cash but perceived value is the same.

I've seen amateur winners in Open division take plastic instead of Money in order to stay amateur on the Euro Tour so can't see why the reverse is not also acceptable.

I don't see the issue. The prize is a disc or £5, your choice. If the disc has a higher perceived value to you take the disc otherwise take the money!
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:42 pm

Paul Holden wrote:I don't see the issue. The prize is a disc or £5, your choice. If the disc has a higher perceived value to you take the disc otherwise take the money!
That's fine for the player, but not for the TD who now has disc stock sitting around to shift.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:33 pm

c) Sponsorship? - Can retain rating breaks. Incumbent on TDs to find some cash. Do we specify a minimum?
One more thought on cash, there's nothing stopping TDs from doing the above currently. If you have the time and inclination to get sponsorship you can offer cash prizes
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by Paul Holden » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:10 am

bruce wrote:
Paul Holden wrote:I don't see the issue. The prize is a disc or £5, your choice. If the disc has a higher perceived value to you take the disc otherwise take the money!
That's fine for the player, but not for the TD who now has disc stock sitting around to shift.
My experience is that the "disc" is generally a disc credit which has been negotiated between the relevant FLDS and the TD. If the play takes cash instead then they don't get the credit. Is that not the way it is working? Special stamped discs not withstanding of course.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by JesseD » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:58 pm

so from what i gather, there is no change to the bands of divisions for 2013.

if so.

do you get to move down when your rating is below or is it based on what it is at the start of the year?
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:42 pm

We had a fairly spirited discussion about the banding and there was really no consensus.

We had informal votes on the subject as follows:

Vote 1
Change to 930 & 880 - 9 votes
Do nothing - 6 votes

Vote 2
Change to 930 & 880 - 7 votes
Change Int/Ad boundary to 870, leave Open alone - 8 votes
Do nothing - 0 votes

I'm still not really sure what that tells us, except that there is definitely an appetite to change something.

So we haven't made any formal decision just yet. In any case, the Open/Am split is based on the start of the year, you cannot move down during the season.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by JesseD » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:25 pm

I don't care anymore, my rating is 919, im moving down, happy days
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm

JesseD wrote:I don't care anymore, my rating is 919, im moving down, happy days
:D Congrats, I think!
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by JesseD » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:28 pm

Thanks buddy i worked really hard to be cream pie crust for the last 3 years :)
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by West » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:42 pm

bruce wrote:Vote 1
Change to 930 & 880 - 9 votes
Do nothing - 6 votes

Vote 2
Change to 930 & 880 - 7 votes
Change Int/Ad boundary to 870, leave Open alone - 8 votes
Do nothing - 0 votes
As I couldn't make the AGM (and missed the updates until after the meeting anyway :oops: ) I thought I'd put my thoughts here :)

After the long discussion in previous posts about the split in divisions I think it makes sense to move the boundaries to 930/880 to bring it closer in line with the US and other countries and keep the distribution of players in the divisions equal (ish).

So that makes 10 votes in Vote #1 and 8 votes in Vote #2 ... if that helps at all :)
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by Mr.Scary » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:04 am

Really good stuff here...

So reading this does it mean the 'lines' with move to 930 and 880?

Or when do you think the Lines will be determined...???


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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:48 am

West wrote:
bruce wrote:Vote 1
Change to 930 & 880 - 9 votes
Do nothing - 6 votes

Vote 2
Change to 930 & 880 - 7 votes
Change Int/Ad boundary to 870, leave Open alone - 8 votes
Do nothing - 0 votes
As I couldn't make the AGM (and missed the updates until after the meeting anyway :oops: ) I thought I'd put my thoughts here :)

After the long discussion in previous posts about the split in divisions I think it makes sense to move the boundaries to 930/880 to bring it closer in line with the US and other countries and keep the distribution of players in the divisions equal (ish).

So that makes 10 votes in Vote #1 and 8 votes in Vote #2 ... if that helps at all :)
I would also vote for this.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by Mr.Scary » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:59 am

rhatton1 wrote:
West wrote:
bruce wrote:Vote 1
Change to 930 & 880 - 9 votes
Do nothing - 6 votes

Vote 2
Change to 930 & 880 - 7 votes
Change Int/Ad boundary to 870, leave Open alone - 8 votes
Do nothing - 0 votes
As I couldn't make the AGM (and missed the updates until after the meeting anyway :oops: ) I thought I'd put my thoughts here :)

After the long discussion in previous posts about the split in divisions I think it makes sense to move the boundaries to 930/880 to bring it closer in line with the US and other countries and keep the distribution of players in the divisions equal (ish).

So that makes 10 votes in Vote #1 and 8 votes in Vote #2 ... if that helps at all :)
I would also vote for this.

Me too.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by West » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:49 pm

So .... how many votes do we need to change the rating levels? :)
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by andrewdouse » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:03 am

Is it possible to do an official vote on this through the website? as Its actively out there at the moment, before people forget about it, or next season starts.. get it decided on way or the other.
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by bruce » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:39 am

Right, Phil and I have made an executive decision to move the Int Am boundary only, to 870.

So divisions for 2013 are:
Open - 920+
Adv - 919-870
Int - 869-0
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Re: Ratings-based divisions for the BDGA Tour

Post by West » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:02 pm

bruce wrote:Right, Phil and I have made an executive decision to move the Int Am boundary only, to 870.

So divisions for 2013 are:
Open - 920+
Adv - 919-870
Int - 869-0
Nice. Int am here I come :)
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