BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Does what it says on the tin!
Phil Wood
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:28 pm
Location: London

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Phil Wood » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:05 pm

bruce wrote:shared Google calendar

Already exists. As TDs start registering events, it will be shared (read only) to TDs.

Will also track any fees owed, just so we can keep on top of it and its all transparent.

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by bruce » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:30 pm

I meant a 'proposed dates' one for TD's to use. I think the TD-to-TD communication piece is vital also, the way I would see it working is: TD adds proposed date to (private) calendar, posts on the FB group their intent to host an event on that date and some details (Tier, part of local tour etc), and asks if anyone has any potential clashes or thoughts. After a bit of chatter, it's agreed and the TD registers it with the PDGA/BDGA and it gets added to the public calendar.
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

Charlie Mead
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Charlie Mead » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:54 pm

Think that would be a good idea. More TD's are planning further ahead and have some clear idea of a 'traditional' or 'series' type event that they would like to establish or have already . Mull is good example- always Easter - but others may not know that. For 2017 it is good for TD's to know they need to avoid the 2 Worlds being held in England - July 24-30 for WFDF World Overall Championships and August 23-27 for World Team Disc Golf Championships as well as the Euro Tour events in Mull (April15-16) and Bluebell Woods (June 3/4) . Or at least be aware they are happening....Hope they are already on the Calendar.
Charlie Mead
charlie.mead01@gmail.com
http://www.cpsforchildren.com
http://www.mulldiscgolf.org.uk
07802321710
For Tournament Discs see:
http://www.disczoo.com/

Charlie Mead
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Charlie Mead » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:03 pm

and I am hoping Seamus is not at all serious about putting on a C tier event in Dunbar at Easter!! A total clash with Mull - geographically and chronologically - is not going to help any of us either on the BDGA Tour or Euro Tour!
Charlie Mead
charlie.mead01@gmail.com
http://www.cpsforchildren.com
http://www.mulldiscgolf.org.uk
07802321710
For Tournament Discs see:
http://www.disczoo.com/

david.pearson
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by david.pearson » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:51 pm

Where is the shared google calendar? Maybe link it to the BDGA website (if it isn't already). Having more events will be great, but decent turnout at events is more desirable in my opinion.

seamus
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: North Berwick
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by seamus » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Phil, it would be nice to get a solid answer from you. Will you allow an additional Bdga event to take place during the Euro Tours, The British Open and Nationals?
Charlie Mead wrote:and I am hoping Seamus is not at all serious about putting on a C tier event in Dunbar at Easter!! A total clash with Mull - geographically and chronologically - is not going to help any of us either on the BDGA Tour or Euro Tour!
I don't want to get torpedoed either Charlie.
Back to back, chicken shack.

ReBoot Disc Golf
www.rebootdiscgolf.com

Charlie Mead
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Charlie Mead » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:08 pm

As Del said:

"Without some management the new system may not be at all beautiful.
The laissez faire approach may work, but it could be a right mess. It was previously deemed important to space bigger events evenly throughout the year, and to meet the scheduling requirements of those courses which had limited windows of opportunity due to length of grass or University term time or accommodation availability or farm management restrictions etc. It was also deemed useful to TD's and players to have the schedule in place before Christmas. Is it now just a calendar land grab? What happens when a small one-day event grabs a date and then a bigger 2 day event wants the same date?"

So is this already happening? Is there potentially less opportunity this year than previously to stage events in a year when BDGA have sanctioned (they had to give approval for) 2 World Championships and 2 Euro Tour events. Along with the BDGA Championships and Nationals that is 6 weekends already taken with dates known well in advance for the WFDF and PDGA Europe events so they can be avoided by other TD's. I have an interest as TD for Mull and technical director for WFDF 2017 WTDGC but also as WFDF Chair, PDGA Europe Country coordinator and International Rep for BDGA I would hope that all these events are ring-fenced for the coming year.
Charlie Mead
charlie.mead01@gmail.com
http://www.cpsforchildren.com
http://www.mulldiscgolf.org.uk
07802321710
For Tournament Discs see:
http://www.disczoo.com/

Phil Wood
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:28 pm
Location: London

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Phil Wood » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:13 am

seamus wrote:Phil, it would be nice to get a solid answer from you. Will you allow an additional Bdga event to take place during the Euro Tours, The British Open and Nationals?

Short answer, no i would not sanction an event.

Long answer will be in the TD guidance doc that we are writing to help TD, which will give recommended distances between events dependant on tier. As DoC i will will work with TDs to avoid scheduling events on the same weekend that would be competing for the same player base.

seamus
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: North Berwick
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by seamus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:01 am

Sounds great, Thank You.
Back to back, chicken shack.

ReBoot Disc Golf
www.rebootdiscgolf.com

mat cutler
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: bristol
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by mat cutler » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:29 pm

Charlie Mead wrote:and I am hoping Seamus is not at all serious about putting on a C tier event in Dunbar at Easter!! A total clash with Mull - geographically and chronologically - is not going to help any of us either on the BDGA Tour or Euro Tour!
I would totally disagree! 188 miles between courses, same difference as mendip and manchester for example. Different competition. Very different player base as to who plays the ET and who play the BDGA tour (only really a crossover for players over 930 not many of us in the BDGA tour!) The new BDGA tour format means that clashes are unavoidable. I would possibly expect to see another 2 day event taking place over the easter weekend in the south too and a 1 dayer over the same weekend somewhere else!

If I was a new player who rating was around 890-910, who have just come to the sport (not unachieveable) I live in edinburgh although I have a full time job and usually work saturdays. Over the easter break I have the weekend off and would like to play a BDGA tour event as I might only get to play 2 other events probably one dayers in scotland and the north of england. My big trip of the year is to plan to play the inaugral British Championships. I would be very disappointed if the BDGA refused sanctioning to seamus for a c Tier event on the bdga tour as there was a clash with a European event. I have no interest in competiting in the Euro Tour and would not be travelling anywhere else in europe this year.

Now in reality The TD might decide that with the top 5-10 players in scotland going off to mull and not attracting any of the top english based players as they were going to Mull it may not be worth putting on an event for maybe only 25-30 players. But this should be the decision of the TD not the BDGA DoC in my opinion.

seamus
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: North Berwick
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by seamus » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:06 pm

Just for the record I was never planning on hosting an event during The Scottish Open, I was just trying to think of the worst case scenario of a free for all system of Bdga events. But you are absolutely correct Matt, Pdga standards would allow me to host a B-tier in Dunbar the same weekend as Mulls' A-tier, crazy but true. I don't think we're dealing with the player density here that the Pdga minimum required distance standard reflects.
Back to back, chicken shack.

ReBoot Disc Golf
www.rebootdiscgolf.com

Phil Wood
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:28 pm
Location: London

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by Phil Wood » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:27 am

seamus wrote:I don't think we're dealing with the player density here that the Pdga minimum required distance standard reflects.
This in my mind is the correct answer, so the bdga will be adjusting the distances to more closely reflect our need/current player base.

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:57 am

Is MA2 effectively becoming redundant for this season? I can't see much sense in this offering unless we are encouraging lots of players out of the Open division?
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
LostMeow
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: London

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by LostMeow » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:08 am

As a TD you can offer which divisions you choose - to attract players competing for the places at the BCs I'd suggest MPO, FPO, MPM, MA1 and MJ1 are essential. Beyond that it's up to you.
Tom
ND

seamus
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: North Berwick
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by seamus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:26 pm

Nationals will retain its trophy, correct?
Just want to verify due to some comments on Facebook. Thanks
Back to back, chicken shack.

ReBoot Disc Golf
www.rebootdiscgolf.com

User avatar
LostMeow
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: London

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by LostMeow » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:55 pm

Nationals will still be the premier matchplay event and the physical trophy will continue to be awarded.

"Nationals is the top 16 match-play event, which will now be played at the start of the season (next one Oct 2017) and places will be allocated based on PDGA rating. British Championships is the end of season stroke-play event, where champions in the categories of Open, Women, Amateur, Masters and Junior will be crowned. Qualification for the BCs is via points gained at BDGA events."
Tom
ND

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by bruce » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:52 pm

rhatton1 wrote:Is MA2 effectively becoming redundant for this season? I can't see much sense in this offering unless we are encouraging lots of players out of the Open division?
It would still seem to be just as relevant as last season, where only AM1 results counted in powerstats. Not sure why that changes under the new system
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:21 am

bruce wrote: It would still seem to be just as relevant as last season, where only AM1 results counted in powerstats. Not sure why that changes under the new system
Because of this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

All current PDGA UK based members. I'm sure there are likely to be more appearing and some old coming back to the fold to change it slightly but these are more likely to increase the MA3/4 levels than than AM1/Open levels.

MA1 is really the redundant division , we just don't have the players between 935 and 970 ratings, those we do have have mostly accepted cash and have PDGA Pro status. It makes sense to bump to MA1 as the hard cap top division but this makes a gaping hole in the middle at MA2 level (assuming those that are actually in that boundary would want to have a go at the MA1 division which they've effectively been playing in all season this year.)

Why would anyone then opt to go into an MA2 division with the player numbers we have currently, it becomes redundant or an irritation to a TD at best, just suggest to all TD's for the time being not to offer it (nothing mandated) and then if there suddenly becomes a pressing need it can be reinstated.

I think what I am going to do with MODS is just offer PGDA AM 1 to all amateur players (plus the other mandated divisions) allowing them all to accrue worthwhile points in the BC qualifiers and then run our own divisions within MODS so sign up sheet has PDGA division options that tie in to the tour and then MODS divisions options that are played for on the day and are held for the season for a season long tour.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

seamus
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: North Berwick
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by seamus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:22 am

A wise man once said to me "No one knows what the event needs better than the TD, run your event" - Brian Hoeniger
I can't wait until the amount of MA2's* in your events are shutting out slow to sign up Open players.

* Doesn't matter what division they sign up for, they're still MA2's.
Back to back, chicken shack.

ReBoot Disc Golf
www.rebootdiscgolf.com

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Re: BDGA 2017 Tour proposal

Post by bruce » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:31 am

rhatton1 wrote:Because of this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

All current PDGA UK based members. I'm sure there are likely to be more appearing and some old coming back to the fold to change it slightly but these are more likely to increase the MA3/4 levels than than AM1/Open levels.

MA1 is really the redundant division , we just don't have the players between 935 and 970 ratings, those we do have have mostly accepted cash and have PDGA Pro status. It makes sense to bump to MA1 as the hard cap top division but this makes a gaping hole in the middle at MA2 level (assuming those that are actually in that boundary would want to have a go at the MA1 division which they've effectively been playing in all season this year.)

Why would anyone then opt to go into an MA2 division with the player numbers we have currently, it becomes redundant or an irritation to a TD at best, just suggest to all TD's for the time being not to offer it (nothing mandated) and then if there suddenly becomes a pressing need it can be reinstated.

I think what I am going to do with MODS is just offer PGDA AM 1 to all amateur players (plus the other mandated divisions) allowing them all to accrue worthwhile points in the BC qualifiers and then run our own divisions within MODS so sign up sheet has PDGA division options that tie in to the tour and then MODS divisions options that are played for on the day and are held for the season for a season long tour.
What I said on FB about it:
There are a bunch of us who feel like we can compete for wins and titles in Open and many of us have accepted cash so can only play Pro in any case. Those who haven't and don't feel competitive enough to play Open should by all means play Am.

Within Am there will be folks who feel competitive and willing to battle for wins and qualification to the BCs; they will play MA1.

Again, those who don't will play down to MA2, which will naturally form its own competitive size, players outside that will play down to MA3, etc...

The only difficulty I see is for visiting players who know what they'd play at home, but it should be relatively trivial to look at results and see where you would likely fit in.
To me you're over complicating things massively to try to overlay a separate divisional structure over the PDGA ones. All the change means is that there is little to no rating boundary enforcement of where people play as the boundaries are higher than the common talent pool for the division. The fact that none of our top non-pros are over 935 is really irrelevant as they will naturally want to be competing for the Am title. Those who can't or don't want to will play MA2, those who novices or are getting battered in MA2 will play MA3
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

Post Reply