BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

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BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by mat cutler » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:11 pm

Registration will be posted tonight at Midnight sorry for the delay!

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by mat cutler » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:33 pm


abonjour
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:34 am

Am I missing something... £70 tournament fee!?!?

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by Mark.A.D » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:10 am

Includes all meals from friday night and camping
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:39 am

Yes I understand that. But why is there no option for those of use who aren't camping and don't need any food?

(Although to be honest I'd probably pay for lunches if that was offered as seems to be the norm)

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:51 am

Yeah I'm also not up for paying £70 entry fee mate when I won't be staying and would bring my own food :cry:
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by bruce » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:56 am

It's certainly a different entry model. Works for me, but would seem to be particularly harsh for locals
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:10 am

Exactly. Or indeed anyone who can't make it down at all on Friday and/or may prefer their own food options.

This may turn this in to a wider debate but surely the main cost for a National Tour Event should be the actual competition itself...? Should extra's not be left as extra's?

As I said, I can understand forcing a lunch option because it's during the course of each day but forcing the cost of anything before and after each day's tournament play seems very unfair.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by bruce » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:59 am

I'm not sure I'd say unfair. On the face of it the cost is actually very reasonable for the service provided, £35 per day for full board accommodation (albeit camping) even if you don't do Friday, more like £20 per day if you do Friday, with a disc golf tournament thrown in.

Disc golf events, BDGA Tour or otherwise, are ultimately a commercial enterprise by the TD, they are the ones outlaying cost and taking the risk of players coming or not, the BDGA takes none of that risk. So I'd say if Matt wants to chance his arm on a different model, that's up to him.

As I say it risks alienating local players, the value to travelling players is diluted for weekend only people, and ironically it may negatively impact those with bigger budgets who would rather fork out a for B&B than camp, so it's certainly a risky approach.
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:20 am

To be clear - I have absolutely no issue with the value/service that is provided for the £70!

But £70 is A LOT of money to force those who don't need/want/can't use the extras to pay where they only want to compete in a BDGA Tour event.

I understand it's the TDs decision, and that we don't have to attend if we don't like the cost, but I can't help but feel there could be a bit more balance here.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by Jester » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:06 am

Compared to other events the cost isn't unreasonable to me. As a comparison if I go to Burnlaw I might pay around £25 entry, £12 breakfasts, £12 sat night curry and £10 camping. That's just shy of £60 already without Friday night food which would be another £10. £70 at Mendips therefore seems reasonable to me and it's an attractive offer to think that all I have to do is get there and everything will be taken care of.

I do of course appreciate that it's a different story for locals, and those who don't want all-inclusive.

I would be concerned if this pricing model had an impact on anyone's ability to attend the last Tour event of the year. With a change this big it would have been prudent for Matt to give an indication early in the year this was planned. It's too late in the season now for players to change their decision as to what events they would like to attend.

I enjoy playing at Mendips, I'll be there and hope the event is a success.
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:14 am

Jester wrote:Compared to other events the cost isn't unreasonable to me. As a comparison if I go to Burnlaw I might pay around £25 entry, £12 breakfasts, £12 sat night curry and £10 camping. That's just shy of £60 already without Friday night food which would be another £10. £70 at Mendips therefore seems reasonable to me and it's an attractive offer to think that all I have to do is get there and everything will be taken care of.
To repeat myself for clarity - In no way am I complaining about this aspect. I think the £70 is excellent value for what you are getting, provided you are able to make use of the meals/Friday option etc.

However, in my view - and this is probably the important difference - these additional extras are secondary to the main purpose of the event which is for it to be a BDGA Tour competition. Thinking about it (and maybe going slightly off topic), I've heard mentions of a Tour Standards Guideline Document in the past. Are there any guidelines for entry fees etc (I always assumed a portion went to the BDGA for example)?
I would be concerned if this pricing model had an impact on anyone's ability to attend the last Tour event of the year.
Well that's effectively what it's doing. Nick's already stated he won't be attending at that price, short of winning the ace pot at Creeksea I won't be either and I've seen at least one other comment on Facebook questioning this too. I find it hard to imagine there isn't quite a few more who would be affected.

Maybe Matt has a good rationale for it so it would be good to hear from him why this is in such stark contrast to every other tournament in previous years and past Mendips events too.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by seamus » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:40 am

According to Pdga guidelines Matt is free to charge whatever he likes and it is up to the free market to decide if he is providing appropriate value.


http://www.pdga.com/files/2016_tour_standards.pdf
C-tier net entry fee recommendations
Open $70 - £52
Amateur $40 - £29
Intermediate/Recreational/Junior $25 - £19
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by abonjour » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:59 am

Thanks Seamus. I knew there wasnt any limits or rules and that its TDs ultimate decision. My question was more wondering about the BDGA's guidelines and if this could have been highlighted at the start of the year when the calendar (and presumably tournament bids?) were already defined.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by Jester » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:41 pm

abonjour wrote:To repeat myself for clarity - In no way am I complaining about this aspect. I think the £70 is excellent value for what you are getting, provided you are able to make use of the meals/Friday option etc.

However, in my view - and this is probably the important difference - these additional extras are secondary to the main purpose of the event which is for it to be a BDGA Tour competition.
Completely understand you point, Andrew, and I think it's a valid one. Why everyone should be forced to have to pay all the non-tournament entry costs is not clear. I'm sure Matt will explain his rationale. If there is no alternative I'd also like to hear James and Phil's views on this as you're right, evidence suggests this approach will prevent some players from attending which at this late stage compromises the integrity of the Tour.
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by BOF » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Just passing by and couldn't help overhear some of the conversation...

I note (and that's all I do here, just note) that there is an option in the registration form to indicate that you will be staying elsewhere, but no obvious reduction in fees as a consequence of this (maybe Matt will contact players individually about this?) and that there are no reductions for BDGA Touring members or students. On the other hand there is discount for Mendip Season ticket holders - which may well be designed to encourage the more local players to attend?

I understand that a TD can decide their own price structure but do sympathise with the observations made earlier in the thread about the possible unnecessary financial impact on local players and the effect that the all-inclusive entry fee might have on attendance from players who might have been expecting a more familiar format and had planned their season finale with that in mind.

The lack of choice does seem to limit a player's options in terms of tailoring their weekend Disc Golf experience in a manner that best suits them and their wallet/purse/lifestyle.

Maybe the economics of running such an event dictate a minimum spend per capita to make it viable?

All speculation, of course. I'm sure I've got other things to be doing than comenting on a tournament I never had any intention of attending in the first place!

Sleep tight.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by mat cutler » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:57 am

Registration form is now updated allowing you to opt out of food and camping options

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... g/viewform
Last edited by mat cutler on Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by mat cutler » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:13 pm

My rationale is simple;

Mendip is a company who run a business, the disc golf course, camp, hub (huge 50x15m tent for tournament central etc) Food is provided by a catering team who run a commercial cafe, all of this and staffing costs need to be charged for. There is also economy of scale, breakfast for 10 people = 1 member of catering staff for 70 people = 1 member of staff.

Mendip are closing the course to the general public for 2 days, providing us exlusive use of the the residential camp, showers. The fee they are charging is well below usual hire rates however, they are probably much higher costs than other tournament venues around the UK. They see the benefit of supporting national events on the course and are being very helpful with course preparation etc.

I apologise if the cost prevents anyone from attending. I have now offered reduction for food opt outs where appriopriate.

Matt

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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:24 pm

Weirdly a reply I posted earlier doesn't seem to have worked....

So first off, thanks Matt for taking the time to explain. I can understand the rationale as you've explained it and like other people have mentioned, think it probably is good value however it's simply out of my budget range :( I also think I understand the info Seamus posted and have looked at the link however I'm not actually sure I completely agree with how the term "entry fee" is interpreted and I'm a little surprised that the BDGA wouldn't have some sort of guideline or advisory range when it comes to prices. The reason I say this is that while I get the point about Mendips being a business and wanting to package up it's other services, I would rather see the "entry fee" be something that's kept entirely separate to all other "add-on's" but that may just be me.

I have since gone through the entry form though and having taken off all the available options, it still seems to be £51 which for me is just too much, sorry maybe next year I guess
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Re: BDGA tour #10 Mendip Masters

Post by bruce » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:01 pm

Hi Nick

Your entry fee always includes some level of goods and services, be they green fees, prizes, players packs, portaloo hire etc. Each venue has their own expenses profile and has to budget for that.

It looks to me that Matt has basically had to make the decision that in order to be able to afford to do breakfast & lunch for anyone he has to do it for everyone, so it gets rolled into the fees, which seems fair enough.
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