BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

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richard
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BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by richard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:33 am

So this is a hyperthetical question that may or may not have merits. I have posted it here as it is the sort of conversation starter that gains traction on the forum, and is sited as the sort of conversation that gets lost on Facebook. The recent survey showed that a lot of respondents do not use the forum at all, and stick with Facebook. I have asked those users to give the forum, and specifically this topic a try, and then reports back their experience. I look forward to both the conversation about the following idea and the feedback of the new and newish forum users.
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Club competition within the normal running of a tour event.
I.E. Upto five members of each club nominated by the club, to have their scores during the event tallied for some sort of points system, best club score wins and a league table starts.

Open, Masters, Ad Am, Int Am, Captains Choice (ladies division if possible, junior div if poss)
1 player from each Division will represent their club/region.
Maybe the player will be the best from each club, calculated at the end... Maybe the Captain chooses the player prior to the event.
Possibly as simple as adding the total scores from the rounds and the lowest cumulative score wins. ... Similar the the constructors championship in F1.

PROS: team spirit, club loyalty, we get a great buzz we get from Hyzer Cup.
Gives more players something competitive to play for.. (The open spoon had a following last year!). It shouldn't be too difficult to calculate quickly.

CONS: I'm sure there are some... Over to you...
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by andrewdouse » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:02 am

Sounds interesting...
A problem might be who counts as club members? simple for some clubs, who actually have memberships, harder for others - e.g. What makes a QP club member? playing there regularly? paying yearly green fees rather than pay as you play? and there's a lot of overlap with Bedworth club (though this might be solved by having an actual, active club across both venues..)
Plus some people are members of more than 1 club - so it might have to be declared in advance which club they are counting towards...?
:)
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by bruce » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:12 pm

The divisional choices are difficult, clubs could be at a disadvantage if they haven't got any old codgers or Juniors. I'd be inclined to leave a free choice of team to the club, but maybe offer incentives to include other divisions. Say a 4 shot handicap for an Adv Am, 8 for Int etc.

Or, rather than summing strokeplay scores, simply a sum of their divisional positions and lowest wins. That way there is a negative consequence of say choosing 5 Open players, your best possible score is 1+2+3+4+5 = 15, whereas another team could have 5 different divisions 1st in 4 and 6th in Open = 10

Andrew's questions would be answered with a more formal club structure as has been discussed elsewhere, and this idea could actually form one of the benefits of joining, both as an affiliated club and as a BDGA member via club membership. They do actually bring up a different issue with a BDGA club model though, if it's assumed that a portion of club fees go to the BDGA for membership what happens if you join 2 clubs? Would clubs themselves have to offer both BDGA & non-BDGA memberships, and then who is tracking who does/doesn't have membership?
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by Jester » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:40 pm

Interesting idea, Rich, many different ways something like this could work as others have outlined already. TBH though not sure if a comp like this is the priority when there are bigger unresolved questions about the overall format of the National Tour/Regional Tour/Majors/The British Open?
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by LostMeow » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:19 pm

It's definitely an interesting idea, Rich. I don't see that the idea as a whole has any particular 'con's but the different ways of scoring it do.
bruce wrote:The divisional choices are difficult, clubs could be at a disadvantage if they haven't got any old codgers or Juniors. I'd be inclined to leave a free choice of team to the club, but maybe offer incentives to include other divisions. Say a 4 shot handicap for an Adv Am, 8 for Int etc.

Or, rather than summing strokeplay scores, simply a sum of their divisional positions and lowest wins. That way there is a negative consequence of say choosing 5 Open players, your best possible score is 1+2+3+4+5 = 15, whereas another team could have 5 different divisions 1st in 4 and 6th in Open = 10
Problem here is that if clubs don't manage to get 5 players at a particular event they either: a) can't compete in that event, or b) get fewer points (potentially) because they have fewer players.

So, how about - use the Tour Stats system we already have (in 4 available divisions: Women, Open, Am, Master) and use cumulative points of up to 5 players for a club at each event. (Highest points total wins at the end, obvs) Then we'd have to decide whether those 5 are nominated before the event or simply picked as best 5 afterwards.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by BOF » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:03 pm

Not sure why we need a Tour Team competition at all - although those involved in teams/clubs might want to run something unoffical on the side using data/stats/results from Tour events.

I certainly wouldn't want to see any future eligibility to attend an event dependent on having participated in a Team Tour event or being associated with a particular club.

As Jester pointed out, the BDGA have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:27 pm

I too would agree there are probably bigger items to focus on but that being said, this type of additional side competition could have multiple benefits; it could be seen as a way for clubs to increase their numbers and ensure their players are improving and, more importantly, making the transition from just a Sunday Slinger to taking part in tour events.

Regarding the format, I would suggest making it a season-long thing and not limiting it to a set number. Instead, get every current player to state at the beginning of each year/season which club they will be playing for. (Newly acquired players would confirm this when they play their first event) Then simply add up all tour points and divide the total by the number of players who scored points. If individual events want to award a prize to the event's best team, then of course they can do so.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by bruce » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:35 pm

Lest we forget, this, while being a sensible idea that has merit, is also a discussion to encourage non-forum users to try the forum. Maybe you might counter that communication is also not the top priority, but as communication director, I'm pretty comfortable with Rich making it his priority... Suggesting it's not worth talking about seems counterproductive!
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by richard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:15 pm

Yep, thank you all for your comments, and as Bruce rightly says, this is a very hyperthetical discussion to see if there is any take up from the FB post. The post has had 102 views over there and as yet only regular forum users have posted.

Will continue to monitor the cross over. Although what I am going to do with that info, God alone knows!
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by Jester » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:08 am

As rich mentioned to me in a chat this evening at Croydon summer league, non-forum users have reported to him that needing to post three times in the new-user area to get accepted is a barrier to their participation. I doubt we'll see any non-current forum users creating an account simply to add their tuppenceworth, but happy to be proven wrong on that point.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by Neil M » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:27 am

I like the idea. It would need perhaps a more formal club structure to be in place? Us smaller clubs who often have overlap would perhaps find it harder. Would we find better players opting to go to perceived bigger clubs where there was overlap or would they go for the Faroe Isles option to ensure involvement?

On the subject of Forum vs. FB. I agree that the 3 posts system is probably restrictive. Surely we have enough moderators to deal with spam posters?
I pop into the forum semi-regularly but would certainly do so much more if FB directed us to forum posts for discussions.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by bruce » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:28 am

I thought the same, but on review the last user to join joined on 11th June, before this thread started. So not one of the 100+ Facebook users who have viewed the post on there has even attempted to join the forum...
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by Neil M » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:56 am

bruce wrote:I thought the same, but on review the last user to join joined on 11th June, before this thread started. So not one of the 100+ Facebook users who have viewed the post on there has even attempted to join the forum...
Perhaps because they had nothing to offer on the subject in that post. In reality the number of people that see a FB post compared to those that actually respond is pretty low. I think that if it became the norm to direct people to the forum and it was a lively, active forum this would slowly change?
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by bruce » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:18 am

Possibly. Maybe the post should have suggested raising membership fees, that seems to engage people in a hurry
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:45 am

Love the idea in principal Rich. Anything to support club structure and to give people more of a feeling of inclusion/ownership of a local area has to be good thing.

I don't see that BOFs concerns will be an issue, this wouldn't be a barrier to non club affiliated players playing would it? It's just a side competition under the BDGA barrier.

There will always be different views on scoring - try it one way if it doesn't work do another.

I would see this being relevant to umbrella clubs as the fields sell out so a Coventry and Warwickshire club rather than Bedworth/Quarry Park individual would be easier to get team members for in a full field.

No reason to not do it even though other competition things are still in discussion. If you build it they will come.....and then argue about it endlessly ;)
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by richard » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:21 am

One of the pieces of feedback that I have received as to why they don't like the forum is the anonymity of the posters. They would like to know who they are! That doesn't seem to be the case here apart from BOF (took me a while to work that one out back in the day)
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by West » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:08 pm

I like the idea in principle as it could give some players in the lower division an incentive to continue to try better as it's for the team instead of (and speaking from experience) having a mini blow up and scoring higher than realistically they should ie it could make things interesting and help with improving the mental side of the player's game.

I know I'm a rare case and don't hang out here as much as I use to (getting older, married, family, work etc.) but I only found this thread reading the FB post :)
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by Charlie Mead » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:27 pm

Definition of a club? Based on a course or a geographic area or an idea or concept maybe. Caught this thread on FB before I saw it on Forum BTW.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by richard » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:18 pm

My initial thought was a possible combination of clubs, areas, regions. You would be expected to declare for whom you are to represent.
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Re: BDGA Tour Team Competition. Forum/FB experiment

Post by robbnot » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:06 pm

Clubs. You'll always have turncoats Grrrrr
(anyone from Basingstoke seen playing for another club will feel the Saxon sword)

On the "who posts/reads the forum /Facebook" thing
As above people fall into slots.

On the forum there is... I don't know maybe 20-30 regular posters, with maybe 50ish repliers, and a couple of hundred viewers
On Facebook it's pretty much the same people give or take a few faces, and probably double the the numbers
Except the views cos everyone views everything on fb but no one really "sees" the posts, there's always a cute kitten/funny dog/naked chick on a motorbike 8) right below.

I could probably name all the regular posters on most multi media sites , there's about 100 of us, no one else needs to add stuff, cos we give all the info, and if you were new to this, would you want to go on this forum and talk to these "old guys"? (me included) :lol:

As I've said before, I've had to sell out on the fb front, just to keep the DG going, (yes, I know I do other stuff, f#*king facebook)
but the truth of the matter....
Facebook - 500 000 billion users
BDGA forum - 1000 users
:(


I will make an effort to link more to the forum from fb, and encourage my locals to log on
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