BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

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SueU
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by SueU » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:59 pm

Hi Jamie

Any info on start times please? for Saturday and Sunday?

Thanks

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by Jaime » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:25 pm

Hi Sue :)

The plan is 0900 for registration and 0930 for the players meeting. First Round will be at 1000.

On Sunday the Third round should start around 0930 although we should be able to confirm this at close of play on Saturday.

J
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by BOF » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:42 pm

arriving mid-evening on Friday (between 7pm and 8pm).
Will there be people at the course?
Can I go and play at that hour?
Hoping to take advantage of mid-summer evening and late light...
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by ChrisOBrien » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:29 am

Yes Conor.

All players, any time:
Please go to Hotshot HQ and pick up a course map and course info sheet and also a visitor sticker.
Still course prep going on. Exciting times ahead!
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by ChrisOBrien » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:34 pm

Registration opens at 8.45 to 9.15 at HQ which opens with shop at 8.30. Players meeting and 'opening ceremony' at 9.29. Aiming to tee off at 10am. Consider sock length for possible nettle encounters and remedies for the pollen count.
Course maps are available from 8.30.

Please read this before coming to HQ if you can and any Q's or concerns please let me know!

For course info: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxHTvi ... cslist_api
BDGA # 305
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Missing trees by 1mm, finding impossible gaps by mistake, these are some of my favourite things

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by Charlie Mead » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:27 pm

Any chance of any results for those of us unfortunate enough not to be there? I know James won the big boys division but what about the masters???
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bruce » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:47 pm

James by 2 from Si, Del 3rd, Dan & Chris tied 4th, Jester 6th, me 7th, Matt 8th. Can't recall after that.
Gary won Adv by 1 from Adam
Sam George beat Jess George by 1 in Int
Ivan & Conor tied 1st in Masters, then claimed 'not to know what to do'. Senility clearly setting in, as I'm sure both have witnessed at least a few playoffs, but Ivan had to leave so I guess it will have to stand as tied. Johnny B 3rd, Sue 4th.
Sian won Women's
Charlie won Juniors from Joe I think, but I left before Joe's card was in.
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by Charlie Mead » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:00 pm

Thanks Bruce - much appreciated. Interesting dilemma on Powerstats for Masters then....do they both get 100 or share 1st and 2nd place points ? Could make all the difference in the race for the old men and women to bag the first ever BDGA Masters Division title......
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bruce » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:15 pm

Charlie Mead wrote:Thanks Bruce - much appreciated. Interesting dilemma on Powerstats for Masters then....do they both get 100 or share 1st and 2nd place points ? Could make all the difference in the race for the old men and women to bag the first ever BDGA Masters Division title......
They will get half the combined points of 1st & 2nd, as per any other tied place.
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by Mark.A.D » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:41 pm

bruce wrote:
Charlie Mead wrote:Thanks Bruce - much appreciated. Interesting dilemma on Powerstats for Masters then....do they both get 100 or share 1st and 2nd place points ? Could make all the difference in the race for the old men and women to bag the first ever BDGA Masters Division title......
They will get half the combined points of 1st & 2nd, as per any other tied place.
Mark Fleetham and Chris Ronalds will be pleased :D
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bruce » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:44 pm

I did think that as I wrote it, but figured I might as well see which pedant thought they were a comedian...
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by BOF » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:59 am

To be fair, Bruce, although I might have watched one or two playoffs, I have only played in one.
The one or two I have seen played have not been the same in terms of which holes were played.
TD was still out on the course, playing their round.
We were happy with a draw and, by virtue of being the only Master left in the room during prize-giving, I was happy to accept the first place trophy!

Great location with some fun holes (and some not-so-fun holes!)
Thanks to all at Myerscough who helped out - especially the spotters.

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bdga30 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Please accept my apologies for not staying for Prizes - I wasn't going to get one :( Thank you for the hard work and spotting carried out by the Myerscough Team.
I also apologise for any inconvenience caused by the Masters - it was case of "buggerrit" rather than follow TD rules - sorry.
Looking forward to coming back when the grass is low and the sun is high.

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by ChrisOBrien » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:18 pm

Results:

Men's Open Division
1. James Luton the awesome
2. Si Luard the great
3. Derek Robins the mystical
T4. Chris O'Brien n Daniel Ryan

Women's Open
1. Sian Lee
2. Ali Northrop

Advanced Am
1. Gary O'Mally
2. Adam Willetts
3. Duncan Hartshorne
4. Nick George

Masters
1. Conor Davies & Ivan Bromage (Playoff pending - might be fun to have a wee playoff one day)
3. Jonny Burden
4. Sue Underwood

Intermediate Ams
1. Sam George
2. Jessica George
3. Joe 'Lizotte' Harries
4. Gary Walters

Junior Boys U16
1. Charlie O'Brien
2. Joe O'Brien
3. Timmy Murphy
4. Eoin Broadhurst

Special thanks to Jaime and Ali for hosting.
Full PDGA results on Wednesday evening.
BDGA # 305
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Missing trees by 1mm, finding impossible gaps by mistake, these are some of my favourite things

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LostMeow
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by LostMeow » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:54 am

Big, big thanks to Jaime, Ali, Chris and all the Myerscough crew for a great weekend. I could see an incredible amount of work went into preparing that course for the tournament, along with all the extras - tournament central, teas and coffees, excellent food etc.

A huge thank you particularly to the spotters, standing around in wind and rain and clouds of biting flies to try and find our errant drives. It made playing the big field possible!

I really enjoyed the course as a whole - a beautiful place to play and some really tricky shot requirements. In the spirit of feedback and whatnot, I'm sure people had different opinions on the holes, but this is what I thought:

Hole 1: (my rating 6/10) - lovely to be in the arboretum (see holes 17 & 18!) but a bit of an odd little shot... Were most people just throwing it at the tree branches ahead and hoping for it to wiggle through to the basket?

Hole 2: (9/10) - apart from the odd OB drive rule, an excellent long par4 - I only managed to par it once. A choice between going for it on the drive or playing a bit shorter and going for a big second shot, a well-defended but not impossible to reach basket - great hole.

Hole 3: (8/10) - I really liked this - trying to get the right placement on the drive to be able to get a line through the trees. It would be nice to be able to see the mando off the tee, though.

Hole 4: (6/10) - I think you should rename this hole 'Not My Style'

Hole 5: (4/10) - my least favourite hole. Odd OB rules aside, I couldn't really see what you could do if you didn't have a 100m hyzer bomb, other than throw into space and hope for it to get back in bounds through all the tree branches - a 'hit and hope' because sometimes it spat OB and sometimes it didn't. I would have liked more of a choice of shot - e.g. if a straighter shot had been opened up.

Hole 6: (7/10) - lovely and good use of OB on the left

Hole 7: (7/10) - enough airspace to get to the basket but not a gimme

Hole 8: (5/10) - bit of an odd one... I can see that you had to use the space somehow, but it's a bit of an odd drive when the best outcome is basically to land on the DZ. There was definitely no incentive to go for the mando off the tee! The triple mando made for some nervy shots and high scores, though.

Hole 9: (6/10) - decent use of the space - I thought it was a bit harsh to have the DZ right behind the fence

Hole 10: (6/10) - could the basket be moved a bit further right? I can see why you had the OB line at the top of the slope, but this meant you could 'park' your drive within 2m of the basket and be OB - what reward for shaping the shot through all the airspace off the tee?

Hole 11: (8/10) - tricky but fair - a good challenge (I never got more than about halfway up the fairway!). I would probably have the disused well as casual relief rather than OB, though.

Hole 12: (9/10) - great basket placement here and a rewarding shot to get right.

Hole 13: (6/10) - thank the giant sky wizard for the spotters! Also awesome work with the stepping stones!

Hole 14: (5/10) - perhaps could be lengthened? DZ was weirdly close to the basket.

Hole 15: (6/10) - would love to have seen this with the grass mowed! I think the 'head' of the snowman was too large.

Hole 16: (7/10) - so simple, so effective and so frustrating! Why is throwing straight so hard!?

Hole 17: (8/10) - possibly the most beautiful disc golf hole I've ever seen. Such a tricky line but also a fair challenge, I think.

Hole 18: (8/10) - basket quite well defended so it was fun to unfurl the sidearm roller here! Also a beautiful hole.
Tom
ND

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bruce » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:17 am

Nice review Tom, and I echo your thanks. My thoughts on the holes.

Hole 1: Yep, that's what I did.

Hole 2: I would raise this to a 10/10 with normal OB rules applied. Best hole on the course.

Hole 3: I didn't like this hole so much, maybe a 6/10. There seemed to be too much risk in the straight drive to merit going for it, so I ended up just wanging a spike hyzer into the trees and hoping to get a decent lie, that seemed to guarantee a 4, give a chance of a 3, where as catching that first tree could easily lead to a 5.

Hole 4: I'd upgrade to 7/10, the hole was just long enough to make it difficult enough, definitely better than 1.

Hole 5: I discussed with Chris that taking out some of the low branches halfway down the fairway would open up both the 'tiger line' straight shot and the bailout chip down the fairway and try for par option.

Hole 6: We discussed maybe taking the tee back 10-15m to bring the pond more into play, leaving a tunnel-like drive. Would likely remove the need for the additional OB.

Hole 7: Best hole name on the course :)

Hole 8: My recommendation was to reverse the hole. Put the basket back right of the DZ, opposite corner to the current tee, and tee off from somewhere near the current basket position. As a reachable par 3, you would then have sufficient incentive to attempt the drive, but also the bailout option to lay up and try to get up and down from the gate.

Hole 9: I thought the DZ was fair, I got up & down, as did Ed Green on my card on Sat. I thought this was more a 7/10, attackable in the right wind conditions and more a par 3 than a 4. I'd maybe move the tee 10m closer so there was a 'safe' bailout shot. Alternatively if you reverse 8, you could reverse 9 as well and be driving to leave yourself a shot through the gap. This would turn it into a genuine par 4, but might make sequencing tricky.

Hole 10: Agree, there was a bit of a green lottery

Hole 11 & 12: Yep, good holes

Hole 13: Again I think this is a better hole than a 6. Reachable for both lefty and righty, a fair but challenging window. Maybe the only complaint is that as long as you got through the window somehow, there is no danger in the second shot. I was never close to the green, but had routine 3s each time. Could the basket be placed closer to the OB on the left? That would unfortunately make it more of a righty hole on an already righty biased course. Possibly a strategically placed OB pond?

Hole 14: I hated this hole, but largely because I seem to have forgotten how to throw 50m hyzers :( Agree that lengthening it would be better, it almost felt like the tee should be a DZ. Lengthen it, and make the basket position slightly less tightly tucked in.

Hole 15: The OB felt a good size to me, any smaller and I'd be inclined not to attack it and just take boring 3s.

Hole 16: Agree, excellent.

Hole 17: A lovely line to get right, but it seemed like the only aerial route to the basket requires a skip shot. With the mowed paths being so narrow, that turned it into a bit of a lottery even if you nailed the gap and line. I'm guessing though that the mowing in there is decorative for the park, rather than influencable by the DG team? I'd have like to see the grass mowed wider after the gap and all the way to the basket, that would also encourage roller lines.

Hole 18: Agreed, the roller was my choice here. The whole arboretum seemed very suited to roller type holes, maybe hole 1 could be revisited with this in mind. On OB flower beds, that seemed to be an odd choice. If the goal is to protect the flowers then it's ineffective, as players will go in to retrieve their disc anyway. None of the beds were really in play, so there was no additional risk added to the drive/approach shots, and given the decisions taken elsewhere to not add penalty shots, this seemed kind of arbitrary to additionally penalise what would already have been a bad shot. Not that I saw anyone go OB in them, but maybe casual relief if you want players not to play from within them.
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by LostMeow » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:55 am

bruce wrote:
Hole 9: I thought the DZ was fair, I got up & down, as did Ed Green on my card on Sat.
It wasn't the distance to the hole, simply the fact that it was literally right behind the fence - therefore for players with low(er) release throws (or shorter people!) it was more difficult than if you naturally release higher (or are taller!). Maybe that was the intention.
Tom
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by Del » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:08 pm

Thoroughly enjoyed it!
My comments on the course would be pretty much along the lines of what Tom and Bruce have already said.
Wow, you gave yourselves a lot of work to get the course in place. Thank you Jaime, Ali Chris et al.
Beautiful location
Great tee signs. I didn't end up referring to the map attached to my bag, as the tee signs and typed sheet told me all I needed to know.
Great HQ, shelter and chairs ahhh.
Tea was much appreciated.
The only real groan/moan I had was the confusion on Sunday start time, not that it affected me greatly, but if you publish a start time, you need to stick with it. I don't know what the story was there, maybe it was just a misunderstanding or rumour that spread, but as soon as I heard about it on Saturday evening I said "that won't work!"
All round great job guys!
Derek Robins
Quarry Park Disc Golf

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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by bruce » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:22 pm

ChrisOBrien wrote: Full PDGA results on Wednesday evening.
*cough*
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Re: BDGA#7 - The Lancashire Hotshot - 20th/21st June 2015

Post by ChrisOBrien » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:33 pm

Thank you for all the feedback. I appreciate all the detail comments about some of the specific holes (there were some experiments in there and some lacking fine tuning in terms of trimming back branches here and there - some of these holes can be raised up to 8,9,10s I can see it!). We appreciate the praise and good vibes too :D
Here are the results.
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/21230
BDGA # 305
PDGA # 34659
Missing trees by 1mm, finding impossible gaps by mistake, these are some of my favourite things

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