Development Committee

Ideas for DG development, good news stories, requests for help etc
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rhatton1
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Development Committee

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:13 pm

Still no further with this. Massive miss. Please advise urgently the situation so all members can be aware of the plans.

Apparently The Board as a collective has decided that anybody inquiring about courses will be sent an email with a list of companies and websites and that's it.

Every single person that has had this response is potentially a course lost. I've had a lot of dealings with Footgolf over the last 6 months, anyone amazed by their growth can be assured this is not the way they go about dealing with inquiries.

This is like being at a trade show and giving someone a leaflet then turning your back on them. Once you have a potential customer you engage, you interest and then you work with them. Handing out a list of websites and emails is not the way to get things done. If any of the businesses I was involved in worked that way we would have no customers.

Give the details to the companies and allow them to follow up each lead. There are only 4 of us, it's unlikely the inquirer will get buried under a mountain of spam.

Seamus and I (not sure about the others) have both had contact with people that have been in touch with the BDGA and had no response, they have come to us individually since.

I have no confidence whatsoever that the current system is working, is transparent or is meeting the needs.

This needs to be sorted as a number one priority.

I would like all contacts to the BDGA in the last nine months to be shared with the interested businesses urgently in the same way they used to be, a sensible way that makes sure no one gets lost/forgotten and gives the best chance for growth in the country.
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Greig
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Re: Development Committee

Post by Greig » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:47 pm

This is a MASSIVE miss. HUGE.


I cannot believe the "Governing Body" (yes I would beef stew and dumplings use air quotes) would actively ignore the potential for a new course in the ground.

You can have the best product in the world, but if you do not sell it, regardless of what IT is you will no longer have a product / money / time for research.

Potential course owners / users / hirers need to be sold to. They will install footgolf instead. Because it is easier to do.

[mod edit - highly unnecessary and nasty] You're doing a great job.

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Re: Development Committee

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:56 pm

Greig wrote:
Potential course owners / users / hirers need to be sold to. .
This, this, a million times this.
Greig wrote:
[mod edit - highly unnecessary and nasty] You're doing a great job.
Don't do that though, i'm not advocating suicide, just a list of contacts to follow up and passing on of future contacts to the people that will get a course in the ground! ;)
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rhatton1
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Re: Development Committee

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:30 pm

Either the BDGA take the first point of contact and see it all the way through to it's conclusion or you pass it on to someone that will. Currently THE BDGA doing it this way are just getting in the way.

the BDGA is a member organisation of what, 80 members, paid up? You're volunteers, you're time constrained, it doesn't have the resource or organisation to deal with this, it doesn't need to , there are 4 companies that do, pass the inquiry onto them and let others deal with it after first contact, stop getting in the middle. Delegate.

As my old boss would have said, NEVER, EVER LET THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMER LEAVE WITHOUT BEING ASKED FOR AN ORDER FIRST!!!!
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LostMeow
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Re: Development Committee

Post by LostMeow » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:59 pm

Greig wrote:
[mod edit - highly unnecessary and nasty] You're doing a great job.
Thanks mate. Always nice to feel appreciated.

Cheers,
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james
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Re: Development Committee

Post by james » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:02 am

I sent this info as an email but feel I should also publicly defend the work the BDGA do.

Since I took over the development email in the interim whilst the constitution was sorted and we set up a new development committee (very very soon) I have received two email enquiries regarding course installation. To those I have responded as Rich says above with some questions about their interest in disc golf and the details of all of the companies that they could potentially contact. In both of these circumstances I believe the individuals have chosen to contact Nige Williams, I know one was in Eastleigh, and I'm sure he can support me on this.
I have only been receiving these emails for a relatively short time (around just before/after Christmas I believe) and so I am not aware of any course design enquiries that occurred before this time that may or may not have been missed. I can only reply to what I have received and thus far the two I have received are proceeding well in negotiations with councils.

This is all I have to say on the matter.

I hope the silent majority continue to appreciate and support the work that the volunteers on the board continue to do. It's not easy but we always try to make the best decisions for the sport.

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Re: Development Committee

Post by Nige » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:40 am

I've had some very positive contacts recently through the current system. I'm not saying it's perfect, it might just be that the interested parties felt that Disc Zoo could provide them with the best service and equipment?

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Re: Development Committee

Post by rhatton1 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:46 pm

In January this year I was copied on an email from James from a holiday camp in North Devon, also copied were the other businesses. What a great idea that was, all of us could then give the person what they needed.

I followed up as I assume did the others. The person involved at the Holiday camp left for another job.

The person who took over had been passed no details and knew nothing about disc golf. How do i know this? Because I followed up, and then followed up again, and kept following up and managed to speak to them (by phone, not email, always works better in sales) the day before a budget meeting.

After selling them the benefits of disc golf a course was approved and installed.

Would this have happened had the original person been sent away with websites and email contacts?

NO.

Let the people with the resource, time, energy and inclination follow these inquiries up, do not leave it to the person inquiring, if you want courses in the ground help us get them in don't put up unnecessary barriers.

This is one of a few emails I was copied on last year and earlier this year that I continue to follow up with, when Bruce was doing it I also received them from him and am still following these up now, it was a better system as it ensures that the inquirers needs are met. This is better for all four companies, it's not just me, it's better for the inquirers, it's better for the sport.
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Charlie Mead
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Re: Development Committee

Post by Charlie Mead » Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:16 pm

As far as I am aware BDGA is not a commercial operation nor does it have a commercial role or arm to further its development. It is a players organisation that acts as a hub for those that need information about playing disc golf and helping to develop the sport. It has a role in helping develop new courses or other opportunities to play but only in an advisory way. Most courses in this country are developed by local groups of players or individuals who have a mission to have a course near where they live. To do so they need hardware and they can contact any of the growing number of Disc Golf companies to find out if they can meet the needs of that course and its users.

That is what the BDGA does. Provide the opportunity and information for anyone wanting to build or establish a course to see what can be done by those who have a commercial interest in the sport. It is not up to the BDGA to contact Local Authorities, Holiday camps, disc golf clubs or parks to help them develop their disc golf ideas. They may want to advise on aspects of play directly affecting players and the public in the best interest of the sport but it is the business aspects - costs, sales, instalation and sustainability - that are the domain of the commercial sector.

I am not a Board member but do represent the interests of BDGA on the International scene. As I also have an interest in Disc Zoo (openely acknowledged in my COI declaration) I take any commercial opportunity to develop courses seriously. I do not expect the BDGA Board to do anything more than they have in the past - which is to pass on any and all information to all those who have expressed a commercial interest in disc golf and who act and behave in an ethical way commensurate with the Aims of BDGA and Spirit of the Game.

Since the election of the new Board Disc Zoo have received expressions of interest re-directed from BDGA. However, as a company, we have installed far more courses than BDGA hve notified us of and have many more to complete - we go out and get our customers, we do not expect to be given them on a plate and we work hard to make sure all our clients are happy with our products and are helped to achieve sustainable growth in the use of the equipment over time.

I am hopeful that the new Development Committee of the BDGA will play a role in helping to establish more courses in GB in partnership with approved commercial outlets. However, development is not just about land and baskets - it is about players, developing events, building on the ideas of the sport that are unique to all flying disc sports and ensuring equality and diversity for all. In this country we are a very small and insular sport played by predominantly white middle class males - I am hopeful that the new Development Committee will address this as a priority and help ensure that any and all growth of the sport brings with it the benefits of wider participation and an understanding of how and why this sport was created.
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Re: Development Committee

Post by seamus » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:27 pm

Charlie Mead wrote:I am hopeful that the new Development Committee of the BDGA will play a role in helping to establish more courses in GB in partnership with approved commercial outlets.
Outside of individual events I would highly recommend the Bdga does not approve, disapprove or partner with any private disc golf business in the UK. The Bdga can only be viewed as competition once it begins to affect the revenue stream of one business over another, even if only by political means.
The best way to avoid the perception of bias is to not engage in opinion at all, transparency doesn't hurt either ;)
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Re: Development Committee

Post by bruce » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:34 am

The BDGA's role in course development is that of a facilitator, not a doer.

The complaint, as I read it, is that it is not currently facilitating very effectively. I would tend to agree that it is more effective to pass on the details of an interested party to the vendors than it is to pass the vendor details to the interested party.

As an analogy, you have a single friend that you want to set up on a date, do you give them the phone number of a person they might like, or do you make an introduction? The latter, it is far more effective and personal. You might also warm them up a bit to the idea beforehand
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

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Re: Development Committee

Post by rhatton1 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:58 am

Charlie Mead wrote:As far as I am aware BDGA is not a commercial operation nor does it have a commercial role or arm to further its development. It is a players organisation that acts as a hub for those that need information about playing disc golf and helping to develop the sport. It has a role in helping develop new courses or other opportunities to play but only in an advisory way.
Agreed. Pass on the details!
Charlie Mead wrote:
That is what the BDGA does. Provide the opportunity and information for anyone wanting to build or establish a course to see what can be done by those who have a commercial interest in the sport. It is not up to the BDGA to contact Local Authorities, Holiday camps, disc golf clubs or parks to help them develop their disc golf ideas.
Absolutely agreed, pass on the details!
Charlie Mead wrote:I do not expect the BDGA Board to do anything more than they have in the past - which is to pass on any and all information to all those who have expressed a commercial interest in disc golf and who act and behave in an ethical way commensurate with the Aims of BDGA and Spirit of the Game.

.
Totally 100% agree that we go back to the way the referral system was done before March, pass on the details!
Charlie Mead wrote: However, as a company, we have installed far more courses than BDGA hve notified us of and have many more to complete - we go out and get our customers, we do not expect to be given them on a plate and we work hard to make sure all our clients are happy with our products and are helped to achieve sustainable growth in the use of the equipment over time.
Same for Disc Golf UK, glad to hear we're not alone in our successful efforts to grow the sport.
Charlie Mead wrote:. However, development is not just about land and baskets - it is about players, developing events, building on the ideas of the sport that are unique to all flying disc sports and ensuring equality and diversity for all. In this country we are a very small and insular sport played by predominantly white middle class males
Again, 100% agree, it would be lovely to see some other companies join Disc Golf UK and Reboot in their efforts to develop the sporting scene within the UK and Chris and Matt of CTS's sterling efforts in taking Disc Golf into schools throughout the land and raising the profile of the sport over the last ten years with children from all backgrounds. It would be even nicer to have the full support of the BDGA in doing this, the organisation that stands to benefit the most,

so despite yesterdays email to the contrary it turns out we do seem to have the same aims and visions for the sport?
bruce wrote: As an analogy, you have a single friend that you want to set up on a date, do you give them the phone number of a person they might like, or do you make an introduction? The latter, it is far more effective and personal. You might also warm them up a bit to the idea beforehand
Perfect analogy.
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