Technique tips and hints

Any chat about technique, training methods, requests for advice etc.
User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:46 am

Village wrote:
rhatton1 wrote: I found chucking a buzz backwards and forwards with Westy on a field that I was more accurate at 90 meters than I was at 40
1) are you really throwing a buzz 90m?

2) as Rich said in an earlier post, if you're within the distance that you can throw a putter (40-50m), throw a putter!
!) The only measurement I have to take this against is the measurements of the holes at Quarry Park, both Westy and I can be pin high on hole 2 with a buzz which is pretty much flat and I think from memory 92 meters. On an open field we both tend to throw further as I have less to think about and only distance to concentrate on, conversly on hole 8 which is only 82 meters I don't tend to get that far with my buzz as I'm worried about going left or right and tend to land after about 70-75 meters most of the time, leaving myself normally a 8-12 meter putt.

2) The whole problem that I have is I struggle to throw putters accurately - see above. From forty meters I would be more confident throwing an overstable driver on a hyzer as I could control it. Forty meters straight with a putter and I will flip it. Obviously with this problem as soon as wind gets involved my game can go to pieces.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
Village
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you

Post by Village » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:42 pm

rhatton1 wrote:
Village wrote:
rhatton1 wrote: I found chucking a buzz backwards and forwards with Westy on a field that I was more accurate at 90 meters than I was at 40
1) are you really throwing a buzz 90m?

2) as Rich said in an earlier post, if you're within the distance that you can throw a putter (40-50m), throw a putter!
1) The only measurement I have to take this against is the measurements of the holes at Quarry Park, both Westy and I can be pin high on hole 2 with a buzz which is pretty much flat and I think from memory 92 meters. On an open field we both tend to throw further as I have less to think about and only distance to concentrate on, conversly on hole 8 which is only 82 meters I don't tend to get that far with my buzz as I'm worried about going left or right and tend to land after about 70-75 meters most of the time, leaving myself normally a 8-12 meter putt.

2) The whole problem that I have is I struggle to throw putters accurately - see above. From forty meters I would be more confident throwing an overstable driver on a hyzer as I could control it. Forty meters straight with a putter and I will flip it. Obviously with this problem as soon as wind gets involved my game can go to pieces.
if you're confident throwing a driver on a hyzer, throw the putter on a hyzer too!!

The putter will be more forgiving that a driver.

alternatively, throw the putter upside down.

try this:

hold the putter flight plate downwards with your thumb inside the rim (thumb parallel with the edge).

Image

raise the opposite edge to about 45°

Image

and throw slightly upwards.

The disc will helix through about 135° and will knife down onto the ground. this shot is very useful where you don't want a flyby eg hole 15 @ QP where this shot allows you drop the disc in near the basket without disappearing into the 5th or landiing in the OB pen.
The worst thing about having a failing memory is.....no, its gone...

Running with scissors since 1977

BDGA 173 PDGA 8831

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by bruce » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:06 pm

Couple of things here:

Firstly; you should be able to throw a putter* almost as far as your buzz. Have you tried throwing it as if it's a driver, i.e. a full blooded throw?

* this does depend on your putter, I carry 3. My putting putter; a stiff classic Aviar, and two drive/approach putters; an Omega Supersoft as my understable and touch disc, and a Wizard (BB Aviar is an equivalent) as a very stable disc.
I throw the Wizard on hole 8 at QP, full power, sometimes even with a touch of anhyzer, and it will reliably come left at the end.

Secondly; if you're struggling with the shorter range low power throws, particularly if you are flipping the disc, then you're almost certainly having problems with the release.
This is likely to be that you haven't identified the transition between the 'disc rips from hand' release of a drive style throw into the more wristy 'finger-spring' release required at lower speeds. If I asked you to toss the disc under the basket from 10m, you'd use a putt-type throw with finger-spring and little follow-through with the arm. If I asked you to do it from 20m, you'd probably do the same thing, just a bit harder and with slightly more follow through.

You can translate this out much further, maybe as far as 50m once you get the hang of it; the amount of wrist/finger gradually decreases, the amount of arm/follow-through gradually increases. Watch Chris and Rick approach the 3rd basket at Burnlaw in this vid (about 1.50 in) to see the very edge of the transition; they're both still using a touch of wrist and the follow-through halts before it gets behind them. Not so easy to see but my shot at 2.33 is all wrist and finger spring on a hyzer with the Wizard, I guess about 30m. Also Michael at 5min.
http://www.catchthespirit.co.uk/gallery ... equinox-09
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:08 pm

I use this shot in the wind but want to avoid using it in day to day play. ONce again its a get out shot its not the answer to bad form and technique. I don't want to avoid the issue of flipping discs or find a way of incorporating it, I want to correct it and eliminate it from the game.

An interesting instructional I've just lifted from Discgolf review:

TRied to copy and paste but it didn't work so just follow the link:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... 17&t=15993 and look for about the 6th post.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:24 pm

bruce wrote:Couple of things here:

Firstly; you should be able to throw a putter* almost as far as your buzz. Have you tried throwing it as if it's a driver, i.e. a full blooded throw?

* this does depend on your putter, I carry 3. My putting putter; a stiff classic Aviar, and two drive/approach putters; an Omega Supersoft as my understable and touch disc, and a Wizard (BB Aviar is an equivalent) as a very stable disc.
I throw the Wizard on hole 8 at QP, full power, sometimes even with a touch of anhyzer, and it will reliably come left at the end.

Secondly; if you're struggling with the shorter range low power throws, particularly if you are flipping the disc, then you're almost certainly having problems with the release.
This is likely to be that you haven't identified the transition between the 'disc rips from hand' release of a drive style throw into the more wristy 'finger-spring' release required at lower speeds. If I asked you to toss the disc under the basket from 10m, you'd use a putt-type throw with finger-spring and little follow-through with the arm. If I asked you to do it from 20m, you'd probably do the same thing, just a bit harder and with slightly more follow through.

You can translate this out much further, maybe as far as 50m once you get the hang of it; the amount of wrist/finger gradually decreases, the amount of arm/follow-through gradually increases. Watch Chris and Rick approach the 3rd basket at Burnlaw in this vid (about 1.50 in) to see the very edge of the transition; they're both still using a touch of wrist and the follow-through halts before it gets behind them. Not so easy to see but my shot at 2.33 is all wrist and finger spring on a hyzer with the Wizard, I guess about 30m. Also Michael at 5min.
http://www.catchthespirit.co.uk/gallery ... equinox-09
I throw my Rhyno up to about 70 meters, my aviar super soft thing about 60 and this flips badly. My buzz I can definitely get more distance on up to about 90 from an x step drive more like 70 from a standing. My drivers up to about 110 I think up to 120 when its all clicked together, but this doesn't happen on the course often, and theres no where at Quarry PArk where thats much use. Comfortable driving distance that I would expect ot be able to land in a 20 meter radius would be 80 - 95 meters.

How would you suggest getting used to playing approach shots as shown in the video? I have tried to copy these actions but still keep coming back to the same problems.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:31 pm

That shot from Michael is exactly what i want. No effort at all and nice and easy.

Its different to what Avery was suggesting that the approach should just be a scaled down version of the drive, but that looked really good, easily repeatable and easy to copy to me.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
Jester
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:10 am

Post by Jester » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:35 pm

rhatton1 wrote:I use this shot in the wind but want to avoid using it in day to day play. ONce again its a get out shot its not the answer to bad form and technique. I don't want to avoid the issue of flipping discs or find a way of incorporating it, I want to correct it and eliminate it from the game.

An interesting instructional I've just lifted from Discgolf review:

TRied to copy and paste but it didn't work so just follow the link:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... 17&t=15993 and look for about the 6th post.
To the earlier point, it's perfectly possible to be accurate at 40m with a stable approach disc (Roc, Buzz, whatever), it's just harder as you have to practice to learn how the disc flies at a low speed. It's easier (and more predicatable flight-wise) throwing a putter at 75% power rather than a mid at 50%.

The diagrams in the DGR post are interesting in that they show the shoulders and chest rotating towards the target before release. This is key on shots that require the power, but for up to a 30m throw it's not necessary and the shoulders can stay in the same line as your feet.

I used to use a technique for close-range approaches (up to 30m) that were too far to use a putting style for that I lifted from watching Charlie. I would stand side on to the target so my shoulders were pointing where I wanted to throw. The throw was then just a matter of a little weight transfer from back to front foot and the right arm moving. As I didn't rotate my shoulders off the throwing line I was guaranteed to naturally release at the target when my arm came through.

I don't use this technique so much these days and my long-putting and short-approaching techniques have developed to overlap so it's not necessary, but it might work for you to get used to always throwing down a certain line.
Jester
BDGA #128
PDGA #8817
------------------------------------------------------
Croydon DGC: Hyzer Cup Champions 08/09, 13/14

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by bruce » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:48 pm

Also see this Discraft tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwqQ21pe4U
It's primarily aimed at getting up and down from 100 foot. Doesn't really get started until 7mins
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:45 pm

Jester wrote:
rhatton1 wrote:I use this shot in the wind but want to avoid using it in day to day play. ONce again its a get out shot its not the answer to bad form and technique. I don't want to avoid the issue of flipping discs or find a way of incorporating it, I want to correct it and eliminate it from the game.

An interesting instructional I've just lifted from Discgolf review:

TRied to copy and paste but it didn't work so just follow the link:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... 17&t=15993 and look for about the 6th post.
To the earlier point, it's perfectly possible to be accurate at 40m with a stable approach disc (Roc, Buzz, whatever), it's just harder as you have to practice to learn how the disc flies at a low speed. It's easier (and more predicatable flight-wise) throwing a putter at 75% power rather than a mid at 50%.

The diagrams in the DGR post are interesting in that they show the shoulders and chest rotating towards the target before release. This is key on shots that require the power, but for up to a 30m throw it's not necessary and the shoulders can stay in the same line as your feet.

I used to use a technique for close-range approaches (up to 30m) that were too far to use a putting style for that I lifted from watching Charlie. I would stand side on to the target so my shoulders were pointing where I wanted to throw. The throw was then just a matter of a little weight transfer from back to front foot and the right arm moving. As I didn't rotate my shoulders off the throwing line I was guaranteed to naturally release at the target when my arm came through.

I don't use this technique so much these days and my long-putting and short-approaching techniques have developed to overlap so it's not necessary, but it might work for you to get used to always throwing down a certain line.
Yeh, sorry the diagrams were a bit of topic, they are obviously for a power rather than finesse throw, but I just happened to come across them as I was writing!
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

Paul Holden
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:34 pm
Location: York

Post by Paul Holden » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:51 pm

rhatton1 wrote:How would you suggest getting used to playing approach shots as shown in the video? I have tried to copy these actions but still keep coming back to the same problems.
One observation is that the people commenting in here, Bruce & Jester and the examples given especially Chris, are all used to throwing catch discs, either for Ultimate or for fun. Catch discs are much more susceptible to changes in release and require much more wrist relative to arm in most situations.

I wonder if you should get a catch disc and try playing catch with someone? This won't necessarily translate directly into throwing technique for your golf discs but might help to educate some of your muscles which are currently less involved in controlling the disc flight.

If playing catch don't just try and throw straight. Try to reach the other person with hyzer, anhyzer, slow, fast, stalls etc. i.e. try to control the flight of the disc as much as possible.

I would suggest a small catch disc e.g. a Sky-pro or J-star rather than a big lid which will just feel way wrong. If you can't get on with the deeper rims on even these smaller catch discs consider a 150g putter. Del has a bunch of these, can't remember if they are Polecats or Birdies.
Paul Holden
BDGA No. 307
PDGA No. 34662

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:45 am

This does seem to be the nub of it, I have no experience throwing frisbees prior to disc golf, the guys I see that approach under the basket from 50 meters each time seem to be those with a background of ultimate. Westy and I are already trying to find places light enough in the winter eveningns to go out and throw a disc back and forth, there must be somewhere out there that isn't a public road!
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

mat cutler
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: bristol
Contact:

Post by mat cutler » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:09 am

I agree with paul,

playing catch is the way forward!

you can easily complete 100 throws in under 5-10 mins you'll only probably do this many throws playing dg in a round and a half! ie over 2 or 3 hours!

another disc to try is you really can't get on with j-star, superdisc or ultrastar (all available from http://www.catchthespirit.co.uk/shop) is the rattler not great for golf but the most similar thing I've ever found to and ultrastar in golf discs - play catch with this.

why not actually try playing some ultimate? lucas thrillson runs lemmings right under your nose! There are regular trainings, tournaments and a league.

The fitness you'll gain is huge bonus too, I'm always shocked how people appear tired after 2 rounds at a tournament.

you may also be able to interest a few more to come along and play golf (I know a lot of them already do)

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:45 am

Would love to play ultimate, but unfortunately I know what I'm like, I'd start playing, get addicted and then spend every weekend touring the country to play that as well, with everything else I do unfortuantely there jsut isn't the time to add another sport.

I would like to think the old fitness isn't too bad at the moment, however after 3 days at Whitcombe i'm not sure that will be the case.
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by bruce » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:04 pm

Rich, I've seen your hand-eye coordination and all I can say is 'not a catcher' :wink:
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

User avatar
Village
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you

Post by Village » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:32 pm

bruce wrote:Rich, I've seen your hand-eye coordination and all I can say is 'not a catcher' :wink:
not really much of a "thrower" either....... :lol:
The worst thing about having a failing memory is.....no, its gone...

Running with scissors since 1977

BDGA 173 PDGA 8831

User avatar
rhatton1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:16 pm

Anyway now we've gone completely off topic, thanks for the support by the way :evil: going back to the original point, does anyone have any other techniques that can be applied away from the course in the deep midwinter nights?
www.discgolfuk.com
richard@discgolfuk.com
Home of the Midlands One Day Series
Talk to us about courses!

User avatar
Village
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you

Post by Village » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:33 pm

No.

anyway, practice is cheating!
The worst thing about having a failing memory is.....no, its gone...

Running with scissors since 1977

BDGA 173 PDGA 8831

bruce
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Leamington Spa
Contact:

Post by bruce » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:25 pm

You can practice finger spring simply by tossing a disc up in front of you, trying to give it no forward movement but maximum spin.
[Standard post disclaimer] My posts are never intended to undermine the work of the Board or individuals putting in effort to grow the sport, they are my honest thoughts on the best ways to grow the game

BDGA: 145
PDGA: 8824

User avatar
BOF
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: Harrogate
Contact:

Post by BOF » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:55 pm

Hey, what's all this cheating going on?

You can't talk about 'practice' and 'technique' and all that stuff and not expect to branded as cheats!

Is this what the BDGA forum has come to?

A sad talking-shop about the merits of throwing the reverse-fade-double-decaff-anhyzer-air-bomb-grenade-thumber as opposed to finessing a slightly-beat-up-Ken-Climo-roc-(9-Times-World-Champion-print)-power-gripped-and-ribbed-for-extra-pleasure!?


Tut tut...


You know what they say... "too much practice can make you go blind"


Shame on you all.


You have been warned.



BOF


Big Putt
BDGA #33
PDGA #8835

http://www.ashvillediscgolf.co.uk

User avatar
Village
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you

Post by Village » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:22 pm

BOF wrote: A sad talking-shop about the merits of throwing the reverse-fade-double-decaff-anhyzer-air-bomb-grenade-thumber as opposed to finessing a slightly-beat-up-Ken-Climo-roc-(9-Times-World-Champion-print)-power-gripped-and-ribbed-for-extra-pleasure!?
Awsome!!

Classic BOF 8)
The worst thing about having a failing memory is.....no, its gone...

Running with scissors since 1977

BDGA 173 PDGA 8831

Post Reply