New Rules for 2006

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bruce
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New Rules for 2006

Post by bruce » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:17 am

Below is a summary of the rule changes added by the PDGA for 2006:
  • Clarified that a line has no thickness under “Line of Play”. This means that a player’s support point must be directly behind the center of the marker, regardless of the size of the marker.

    Made players responsible for the actions of their caddies.

    Stated that players should attend the player’s meeting and that they are responsible for knowing what is mentioned at it.

    Clarified and expanded the explanation of Provisional Throws. You can use them to play holes in alternate ways (carding both scores) to settle rules disputes and you can use them when you think it might save time. (Lost disc, OB disc, etc.)
    Again, provisional throws can really come in handy.

    Clarified that casual obstacles can not be moved if part of them are between you and the hole. Play it where you threw it. The player now has the option of moving back five meters on the line of play.

    Changed Unsafe Lie to Unplayable Lie. A player may now relocate within 5 meters OR throw from the previous lie with a one throw penalty.

    The default is now NO two meter rule. Of course the TD has the option to make two meters a penalty if they wish. TD’s can also have it apply only to certain, designated obstacles.

    Out-of-bounds. The line is now considered OUT, not in. This will make OB much easier to rule upon, in many situations. (Fences or walls as OB.)

    Lost disc. The player plays from their previous lie. (Throw and distance.) This gets rid of that contentious “where it was last seen” judgment call.

    When recording scores, clarified that numbers must be used and that it is okay for anyone in the group to pick up the cards.
So, what do people think?
The one that jumps out is the 'Lost disc' rule, you now have to return to where you threw from, rather than guessing where it was last seen.

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Steve
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Post by Steve » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:15 pm

I think most TD's will use the 2 metre rule still. Allthough I think landing in a tree or bush with no way to throw is punishment enough without dropping a shot.

Could you clarify this ob line rule please Bruce mate. I'm still confused. used to be (as far as I know) if it was over the line of ob slightly with some disc ingame, then it was in. Is that not anymore?
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bruce
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Post by bruce » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:19 pm

Steve wrote:I think most TD's will use the 2 metre rule still. Allthough I think landing in a tree or bush with no way to throw is punishment enough without dropping a shot.
Probably, though they will have to remember to specify this at the players meeting, or it will be out. I also agree about the double punishment.
Could you clarify this ob line rule please Bruce mate. I'm still confused. used to be (as far as I know) if it was over the line of ob slightly with some disc ingame, then it was in. Is that not anymore?
The rule still acts exactly the same way; if any part of the disc is IB, you're safe.
The change is only relevant where an OB line has a 'width', for example if using a wall. By default, landing on top of the wall (with no part of the disc extending IB) will be OB.

Personally, I prefer to think of OB lines as having no width. So if using a wall, you simply define either the inside or outside edge of said wall as the line. If you define the outside, on the wall is IB, if using the inside, on the wall is OB.
Nothing in the rule change actually prevents you still doing this, it's only if you fail to specify, it defaults to the inside edge.

Hope that clears it up!

Surprised there hasn't been any reaction to the 'lost disc' rethrow rule change. Personally I think it's quite harsh, but I'll be sure to use spotters anytime I won't be able to see the disc land!

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Post by Tim » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:14 am

Bruce wrote:Surprised there hasn't been any reaction to the 'lost disc' rethrow rule change. Personally I think it's quite harsh, but I'll be sure to use spotters anytime I won't be able to see the disc land!
I agree Bruce, so at Essex, you throw over the lake but unfortunately it lands in the lake, now in reality most of the time the disc is lost as you can't see it, now we have the rule that you have to play from the drop zone, so all well and good there, but say you are on a par 4 hole and your 2nd drive goes missing, you've picked up your marker and after 3 minutes of looking you can't find it, so back to your previous lie, but where was it? You know roughly so your just guessing just like you would with where your disc was last seen, but this time you are penalised further by having to go back as well has taking an penalty stroke????

Come on Sec, please explain the logic behind that one?

Tim
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Post by bruce » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:04 pm

Tim Tom wrote:
Bruce wrote:Surprised there hasn't been any reaction to the 'lost disc' rethrow rule change. Personally I think it's quite harsh, but I'll be sure to use spotters anytime I won't be able to see the disc land!
I agree Bruce, so at Essex, you throw over the lake but unfortunately it lands in the lake, now in reality most of the time the disc is lost as you can't see it, now we have the rule that you have to play from the drop zone, so all well and good there, but say you are on a par 4 hole and your 2nd drive goes missing, you've picked up your marker and after 3 minutes of looking you can't find it, so back to your previous lie, but where was it? You know roughly so your just guessing just like you would with where your disc was last seen, but this time you are penalised further by having to go back as well has taking an penalty stroke????

Come on Sec, please explain the logic behind that one?

Tim
Ok, here's my take on it. A disc can be designated OB without being actually found and identified. This would happen in the Lake, or in the Avon at QP etc. It can also happen when it is observed clearly to have disappeared into an OB area (over a fence into woodland; into the power station at Essex etc).
It's only when a disc is lost IB that the lost disc rule comes into play.

So, finding your lie. The 2005 rules say you play from where it was last observed to be. Consider 'To the Knoll' at Whitcombe. From the tee, there is every chance that the last time it was seen it was above the fairway over the tree line, but you know it turned over and could well be in the bowl of Hypotenuse or beyond! The decision to play from the top could easily save you 6-8 shots. The problem with the old rule is that it's quite arbitary. if it was "play from where the disc was likely to have landed", it would be fairer, but still no easier to judge where that is.

Under the new rule, I reckon you'd be able to pick your previous lie to within 10m every time, and probably more accurately than that most of the time. Additionally, the vast majority of discs are lost on the tee shot, rather than second drive or approach shot. There's no problem finding your lie there, it's the tee pad!

I know there are some in the US who want the rule to be 'throw and distance' for OB as well as Lost disc, which would at least clarify the first point, but would be even harsher!

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Post by Scuttler » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:56 am

Bruce wrote:
Tim Tom wrote:
Bruce wrote:Surprised there hasn't been any reaction to the 'lost disc' rethrow rule change. Personally I think it's quite harsh, but I'll be sure to use spotters anytime I won't be able to see the disc land!
I agree Bruce, so at Essex, you throw over the lake but unfortunately it lands in the lake, now in reality most of the time the disc is lost as you can't see it, now we have the rule that you have to play from the drop zone, so all well and good there, but say you are on a par 4 hole and your 2nd drive goes missing, you've picked up your marker and after 3 minutes of looking you can't find it, so back to your previous lie, but where was it? You know roughly so your just guessing just like you would with where your disc was last seen, but this time you are penalised further by having to go back as well has taking an penalty stroke????

Come on Sec, please explain the logic behind that one?

Tim
Ok, here's my take on it. A disc can be designated OB without being actually found and identified. This would happen in the Lake, or in the Avon at QP etc. It can also happen when it is observed clearly to have disappeared into an OB area (over a fence into woodland; into the power station at Essex etc). It's only when a disc is lost IB that the lost disc rule comes into play.
Just double checked on this, since I wasn't sure, but Bruce is right. :D

A disc is declared OB "if there is reasonable evidence that it came to rest in an OB area" i.e. everybody in your group sees you shank your drive into the lake, or into the Phesant pen on Hypotenuse etc.

Also, the rules specifically state that "an OB disc is NOT a lost disc".

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Post by bruce » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:14 am

Scuttler wrote:Just double checked on this, since I wasn't sure, but Bruce is right. :D
I'm hurt that you could have thought otherwise! :cry:

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Post by madfrolfer » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:37 pm

From another chat board:

I don't mind the 2-meter rule change or the unplayable lie... I DO think the lost disc rule has the possibility of being a nightmare. The WHOLE group has to go back and decide where the player threw from if it wasn't from the tee. How often is the whole group actually going to go back (so now who's actually deciding where they were throwing from, just the player?)? How much better is this than the whole group deciding where it was last seen? If the whole group does go back, this could seriously impact speed of play (probably on some courses more than others). I think we're going to find out this year that this is a poor "solution" to the issue of determining the last place a lost disc was seen.

my 2 cents
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Post by bruce » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:51 am

Methinks someone is misreading the rules there. It's no different to deciding where your disc has gone OB, you mark it where you think it is, and only if there's some dispute will it go to a majority group decision.

Usually it involves no more than you saying to the nearest other player "Is here ok?"

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Post by madfrolfer » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:36 pm

Me thinks you read something wrong.

That post had nothing to do with an OB disc, just sharing some opinions on the 'Lost Disc' rule.
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Post by bruce » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:17 am

madfrolfer wrote:That post had nothing to do with an OB disc, just sharing some opinions on the 'Lost Disc' rule.
I know that, I was comparing the rules...

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Post by Tim » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:06 am

Bruce wrote:
madfrolfer wrote:That post had nothing to do with an OB disc, just sharing some opinions on the 'Lost Disc' rule.
I know that, I was comparing the rules...
Bruce, how can you compare the rules, they are completely different...

Scenario

You're on Hypotenuse and you're feeling confident, unfortunately your first drive lands somewhere on the hill as the wind has been unkind to you, your second drive heads into the pen, so you all think OB, so you all stroll down there and there's a few more shots to be taken before you can locate your disc, but when you do start to look, the 3 minutes are up and the disc is declared lost, now 10 or 20 minutes may have elapsed and you have to take your next shot from the last place you drove from, this is where the rule falls flat, as everyone has to agree where you drove from so you all have to trudge up the hill to the approximate lie before carrying on, this is where rounds will become longer.

So you still think this rule is a sensible way forward?

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Post by bruce » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:34 am

Tim Tom wrote:Bruce, how can you compare the rules, they are completely different...

Scenario

You're on Hypotenuse and you're feeling confident, unfortunately your first drive lands somewhere on the hill as the wind has been unkind to you, your second drive heads into the pen, so you all think OB, so you all stroll down there and there's a few more shots to be taken before you can locate your disc, but when you do start to look, the 3 minutes are up and the disc is declared lost, now 10 or 20 minutes may have elapsed and you have to take your next shot from the last place you drove from, this is where the rule falls flat, as everyone has to agree where you drove from so you all have to trudge up the hill to the approximate lie before carrying on, this is where rounds will become longer.

So you still think this rule is a sensible way forward?

Tim
What? That post is so riddled with errors I don't know where to begin!

Second shot into pen - even if you can't see it, if the group agrees that it's OB, it's OB. Work out where you probably crossed, get on with it.

Second shot lost in (imaginary) long grass behind the pin but definitely IB - Player climbs back up to where he thinks his lie is, shouts down "Is this OK?", adjusts for waved directions, gets on with it.

When was the last time you went OB/lost a disc, and the entire group marched over to the place it happened to pin-point the location? No, you mark something, and yell "Is this OK?" or "Waddaya reckon, about here?". Someone says "yea", and off you go. Same thing with the new lost disc rule.

The problem with any rule is that it will almost always look a bit silly if you test it at the extremes. I think the change will result in the vast majority of lies being marked accurately, in a reasonable time, whereas the old rule resulted in inaccurate lies ALL of the time (otherwise you'd have found the disc!).

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Post by Tim » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:17 pm

Bruce wrote: What? That post is so riddled with errors I don't know where to begin!
Okay, it was riddled with a few errors, but the idea of the second shot IB but lost is still gonna cause just the same amount of errors as trying to get the group to agree where the disc was last seen, so why the change and when say in major events where there's a reasonable amount at stake, it will slow rounds, but i suppose the proof is in the pudding and we shall have to see how players react to this rule as the year progresses.

Does anyone else have any views on this or shall Bruce, Fernando and myself keep playing devils advocate with each other :twisted:

Tim who thinks open discussion of extreme examples should help out the vast majority of players, or will it...
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