Club league idea

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robbnot
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Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:11 pm

Thinking about getting people to join the bdga and club affiliation etc blah blah

Club members play in tournaments throughout the year as normal, but they represent their club and score points relative to the other club members in that same tournament, and points go to each respective club,

To be in, you have to be a member of a club affiliated to the BDGA, and a paid up member of the BDGA

None of this would affect your bdga tour points, or pdga or anything, just for fun club rivalry on a regular basis

I don't know what you'd get or how to affiliate, but the BDGA Club league is a good starting block...

Affiliation costs?
£10 per year plus £1 per member ??

I'd go for that, ie.
Basingstoke disc golf - 15 paid up members
£10pa + £15 = £25

We've got about 5 or 6 bdga (touring) members so only their points would count, but this would give the non believers something to think about,

All events that are bdga sanctioned would count,
Bdga tour, smegs, mods,nationals,eurotour, Quaich, WOC,Acerace, Trilogy, Womens day,

Obviously there is going to be the clubs that lead and it may seem a little unfair, but I say support your local club,
Like football there'll be clubs full of pro's and clubs of Ams but it's all about bragging rights really

And fun 8)

Thoughts please
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LostMeow
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Re: Club league idea

Post by LostMeow » Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:37 pm

Could be a nice idea, Robb.

I could see this working without the need for additional charges (which are always a hot issue).

It might give people that bit extra to enter a tournament for - e.g. I could feel just a little bit better about my last place finish in Open if it was contributing 5 points to my club's total!

Kinks to work through:

It would need someone to administrate the points (hint hint...) - dumping in Phil's lap would be a tad unfair, IMO.
That person would need an up-to-date register of who was playing for what club + how would they know if the player was a paid-up member of the club?
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burt
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Re: Club league idea

Post by burt » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:34 pm

This is something I have thought about recently, Particularly wondered if an affiliate program might be able to extend to insurance cover, and could also help to support new clubs, i'll be looking at options in the next week with insurance companies. I Like the idea of a little league or competition amongst clubs as well, could be some interesting stats.

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Re: Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:56 pm

I just posted about insurance, haha,

I agree about not dumping it on Phil, and I would offer, but I'm busy with the WOC,
But I don't mind helping out if I can,

Club membership wouldn't be to difficult to get off each clubs sec' or main person, or even post up here and there
"oi who do you play for?"

Absolutely Burt, the stats would be great, I reckon run it and tweak as you go
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Cooper
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Re: Club league idea

Post by Cooper » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:55 pm

This could be easy to setup...

Create an Excel document with macros to:
Automatically sort out a point system
To automatically update scores
To automatically check members against a BDGA member list

Share the document in something like Google Drive
- where only designated people of each club can update the sheet

A live read only copy available at all times
Someone to upload a copy to the BDGA website say once a month
- if the site cannot automatically read a sheet live etc...

It would be useful for the BDGA secretary to update the BDGA member list on the Excel sheet when they update their Member list.
Clubs can keep their member lists up-to-date on their sheets
(Copy - Paste)

So in actual fact it would be low maintenace if it was introduced in a simialr way to this


(I'm happy to create the Excel sheet to make it automated)

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Re: Club league idea

Post by bruce » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:08 am

Cooper wrote:This could be easy to set up....

(Snip)

(I'm happy to create the Excel sheet to make it automated)
I'm glad you added that last sentence!!

I absolutely agree that a club points race, primarily for bragging rights at least at first, would be a really fun thing and a great incentive to get club members to sign up with the BDGA
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Re: Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:39 am

Awesome, cos in my head it's simple too.....
No jokes please, yes it is and I like it that way..
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Re: Club league idea

Post by Mark.A.D » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:26 am

robbnot wrote:cos in my head it's simple too

(Snip)

jokes please, I like it that way.
Couldn't help it :lol:
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BaggerBlakehill
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Re: Club league idea

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:23 pm

This is a really good idea and could actually have a significant impact on the growth of the sport, the UK tour and may actually provide a few surprising season winners. I say this because if instead of using a sliding scale of points working from the top division down, the scale worked from the bottom division up it would incentivise clubs to grow by increasing their Rec and Am numbers and get them touring.
Let's be honest, MPO and (most) MA1 players are going to attend events irrespective of 'extras' but for the MA2, Rec and juniors, the idea that by attending tour events they can be helping their local club might be just enough to push them past the fact they find attending their first few events kinda intimidating.
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robbnot
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Re: Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:46 am

Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking, just a little incentive to join the bdga as a "touring" member and of course your local club.
Mainly aimed at the lower divs, but something the upper echelons of tour will love as well,
More bragging rights 8)
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Re: Club league idea

Post by rhatton1 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:50 am

I like it. Great idea.
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Re: Club league idea

Post by Mark.A.D » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:34 pm

rhatton1 wrote:I like it. Great idea.
A 5 word post?

Who are you and what have you done with the real rhatton1?
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Re: Club league idea

Post by Cooper » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:53 am

ok so how will the points work?

I need an example to help create the code.

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BaggerBlakehill
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Re: Club league idea

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:27 am

I'd say that every player should be awarded points for participating and again it should be done on a sliding scale e.g. Junior & Rec 5pts
IntAm & Ladies 3pts
AdvAm 2pts
Open 1pt

In terms of points for finishing i still think a similar sliding scale would work best being weighted more at the lower divisions than the top but I'm not exactly sure how it would work without being unfair. My initial thought was if there are say 5 divisions, do 15pts for Junior, 12 for Rec, 9 for IntAm, 6 for Ladies, 3 for AdvAm, 1 for Open but then I've just realised I've not included Masters and the difference between a single point for Open and 15 for Junior is already probably too big :(
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Re: Club league idea

Post by rhatton1 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:46 am

MODs system works pretty well and is easy to administer, it gives points for showing up but only in less well attended divisions/events which would encourage attendance to smaller events. Normally takes me about 20 minutes to put the numbers together afterwards so not too onerous a task (no, this isn't me volunteering!!)

Have it split divisionally so no need for weighting. Effectively there are different leagues each club can play in - Open, Masters,Ams, ladies, Ints, Recs, jnrs, . If one club has no open/high ad am players it doesn't mean they have nothing to play for in the season, as their strong beginner base can steal the Ints divison.
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BaggerBlakehill
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Re: Club league idea

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:14 pm

See I think splitting it into divisions might actually make it less inclusive overall as clubs who have a fairly even split over the divisions would stand little chance whereas a club with only a few Open and Ads but an army of Ints and Juniors could really challenge clubs with many more higher rated players.
I guess it really does depend on what the underlying focus is; if it's simply a way of trying to increase player numbers taking part in BDGA events, then I'd say just go with points just for taking part whereas if you're looking to crown the 'best' club then give points based only on finishing positions at events. If however you're trying to achieve a healthy mix of the two (which I'd see as the preference) I think it would also require a mixture of the two systems; points for participating AND for how your players finish.

On a slightly separate note, I also believe applying such a system might reduce the general grief, sorry 'banter' ( :roll: ), received by players when they win a single event and suddenly are made to feel like they have to "move up". At least this way, if you choose to stay playing in the division you're entitled to play in you'll be earning more points for your club and hopefully get some support from them for doing so.

So thinking on it a little more maybe give points for participating based on divisions and then also if they place anywhere in the top 3. I don't think it would even matter if the points were the same for each division at that point e.g. Jun&Rec 5, Int 4, Ladies&Mast 3, Ads 2, Open 1 and then 5pts for each player placing.
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robbnot
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Re: Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:26 am

I thought something like...

use the points you get in the bdga tours, 8)
with the restructure of the bdga tour and inclusion of regional tours to the bdga events calendar, if you play at Mull or QP in the two day open or a one dayer on the smegs or MODS you will earn bdga points - if you are a bdga member... these points are directly transferred to your club.

Yes obviously there are going to be clubs way ahead on points, but thats the point, otherwise whats the use of Bristol Rovers or Sauber..

possibly adding points for turn out ? 2pts per player at a regional, 5pts at a British Tour event, etc

giving different points for divisions is gonna over complicate it. L, SGM, GM, M, O, AD, INT, R, JNR 1& 2, and all again in women's.
although while sitting typing I can see why we'd need to adjust ... but you can't fairly adjust it with the few players we have, how do you score equally and fairly the points for a division of four people, against a division of 50 people when they are earning points for a club
eg, if 1st place is 100pts in Open, how can we then say to Ethan you can't get 100, you get 20pts because pro-rata you're young and there's no one else in your division blah... similarly Cassie would just need to attend all 5 smegs and walk away with 400/500pts, where I could play in a tourney every weekend of the year do fairly well in my div and score score maybe 80/150 pts, Unfortunately you can't please everyone

so, using the points already in play, should make it easy to administer and easy to follow. if a tad unfair

OR

you could simplify completely and just go ...

1st -- 20pts -- All divisions, All events (bdga) (except club leagues)
2nd - 10
3rd -- 5
4th -- 4
5th -- 3
6th -- 2
7th -- 1
again, possibly adding points for turn out ? 2pts per player at a regional, 5pts at a BT event. ???

This would stop clubs "steaming" ahead in the points on a visual scale ie. QP 3,748, Bdg 467

This idea is primarily an incentive to get people to join the bdga, thats why I think you should use the bdga points system, so only bdga "touring" (payed up not associate) members score club points.

Also, you could adjust the non-members out of the scores, for instance, the Masters div' (using the pts i can see above, its late and i hate maths)
1st Del BDGA member ----- 20 tour pts
2nd johny non member ---- 10 tour pts
3rd Alan Associate --------- 5 tour pts
4th Robb BDGA member ---- 4 tour pts

Del = QP, - QP get 20pts for 1st,
Robb = Bdg - Bdg get 10pts for 2nd

Johny non member, and Alan Associate don't score points for their clubs

Ultimately Cooper it's up to you dude 8)
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Re: Club league idea

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:28 am

But the thing is Robb that by making it a system that is so heavily in favour of the bigger, more established clubs like QP, it actually (in my mind anyway) does the opposite of incentivising clubs to grow their Rec and Junior player based and send as many of their players as possible. For example, if the points are like you said, QP in the 700s and B'stoke are down in the 300s, what is the incentive for your players to attend when the title is so far out of reach. What reason could you give your players to go when you send your rally call that you can't give them today?

Giving points for attending as you mentioned depending on whether it's a regional or national event sounds good. In terms of the other points though, I think going with the points awarded by the BDGA wouldn't be the best idea as like you say, the difference between divisions could be vast. Simply giving points for placing would simplify and even things out nicely. I also wouldn't agree with excluding non-members. They've made the effort to attend so they should be included.
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robbnot
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Re: Club league idea

Post by robbnot » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:45 pm

It's not in favour of the bigger clubs, it's across the board scoring,
If a club has 30 bdga touring members in all divs they are gonna score more than a club with 5 bdga members in 2 or 3 divs
ie QP and Basingstoke
Hence the earlier reference to Bristol rovers and sauber.
This is not a league to get Recs out on tour, this is to encourage the player's that already tour to jump up and pay the bdga fee's and join, and therefore score points for the "BDGA Club League"
It's a team league, so clubs like QP, Croydon, Bristol would battle out at the top, while Bedworth, Basingstoke, Brighton, etc battle it out down below, in five years we can all look back and see how we've grown,
Let's stop mollycoddling... Some you win some you lose its only a game,
Like I said there are obviously going to be leaders, but over time tell get knocked off the top, look at ferrari.
The incentive to play is loyalty to your club and pride.

The points system is a difficult one but we shouldn't punish clubs for having more members or award more points to clubs with less.

It's a BDGA Club league, if you ain't in it you ain't scoring points,
Just turning up at an event is not making an effort,
Turning up at an event early and helping set it up, is making an effort, joining the bdga is making an effort,
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Re: Club league idea

Post by BaggerBlakehill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:15 pm

Yep, fair points Robb. I guess if the point is mainly just to try to increase BDGA memberships then your idea is all good mate. Sorry, not trying to be difficult or mollycoddling
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