Rules thread

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bruce
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:47 pm

rhatton1 wrote:thats how I'm understanding your first post # 70 and for me that goes completely outside the spirit of the game.
Yep, that's about the gist of it. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to write a rule that meets the sense of 'spirit of the game' that most players have. We all understand the distinction between a twig that lies a bit in front of and behind your marker and a massive branch that obscures your line to the hole, but is also slightly behind your marker, but how do you capture that in a rule? The only way to me would be to specify a size, say objects that are no higher than 50cm for example.
rhatton1 wrote:Oh my.
Wait until you get to the bit that distinguishes between a twig on the ground in your lie, and one that is an inch off the floor in your lie...
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Re: Rules thread

Post by rhatton1 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:32 pm

I have, what got me really annoyed were the semantics over what constitutes support.

If I am behind the willow tree on hole 12 at QP, my pull through ends up me moving the light branches in front of my lie as I release my disc (I'm not holding onto them or supporting my weight, or moving them out of the way deliberatley, they are being touched in the process of the disc releasing from my hand) I would not expect to be called on this - and if I were called I would expect evidence shown to me on a stop motion camera as who the bloody hell could call it in normal time with the naked eye!! Yet they are arguing on about it. This is what I mean about giving final say to the local rules committee or TD for the event. All rules can be twisted but some common sense has to apply and local trusted individuals have to apply it.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by BOF » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:31 am

aaaaargh. I didn't realise that Rules were so infuriating!

What a great read that thread is, Bruce!

This, however, looks like an enticing alternative:

http://www.snapchingthegame.com/index.html

Can we try it on one of the Tour events, maybe Nationals? :wink:

Go on, you know you want to... :twisted:

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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:44 pm

I can't remember who I was having the conversation with at QP last weekend, but there was a query about puddles and casual relief. I'd forgotten that the rules update allows free relief up to 5m on the line of play:
OBSTACLES AND RELIEF: 803.05
Significant changes here. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course with the exception of casual obstacles to a stance listed below. A player is allowed to request that other people remove themselves and/or their belongings from the player's stance or line of play. This includes spectators, umbrellas, golf bags, chairs, etc… Casual obstacles as in current rules – casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round – can be moved if they are in the player’s stance or run-up, even if part of the item like a branch is in front of the lie.
If the casual item can’t be moved, like water or a bee hive, the player may take free relief up to 5m back on the line of play like before. If players require additional relief beyond 5m, they may invoke either the new Optional Relief rule (803.05C) and go back on the line of play as far as they desire with a one-throw penalty. Or, decide to declare the Optional Rethrow discussed previously and return to their original lie and throw again with a one-throw penalty.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by ChrisOBrien » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:55 pm

A competitor throws her drive on a hole with a mandatory dogleg and misses the mandatory. After placing her third throw in the basket, the group realizes she did not successfully navigate the mandatory properly. What is her score for the hole?

A) She gets a three.
B) She gets a four, her three throws plus one penalty throw for misplaying the mandatory.
C) She gets a five, her three throws plus two penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
D) She gets a six, her three throws plus three penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
E) The competitor isn't done yet. She must mark her lie from the hole and go back to 'unwind' on the mandatory before truly completing the hole.

Any suggestions please?
I can't find the answer in the rule book.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by ChrisOBrien » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:38 pm

got the answer, it's:

She gets a five, her three throws plus two penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by ChrisOBrien » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:44 pm

Wahay!!
I have successfully passed the PDGA Official's Exam :D
Just thougth I'd share that.
Took me 1 hour and 40 mins mind you
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:52 pm

Just thought I'd mention on here, I am now one of the seven PDGA Rules Committee members :)
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Re: Rules thread

Post by LostMeow » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:02 pm

Woah! Nice one!
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Mr.Scary » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Fred Risbee wrote:got the answer, it's:

She gets a five, her three throws plus two penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
You know with the Cyclone coming up I was wondering what a score would be on #2 if you missed the mandos on your second shot but you made it in! I've got it now. Par(4).

Thx.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Mr.Scary » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:27 pm

bruce wrote:Just thought I'd mention on here, I am now one of the seven PDGA Rules Committee members :)
Grats man!!!
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Jester » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:29 pm

bruce wrote:Just thought I'd mention on here, I am now one of the seven PDGA Rules Committee members :)
Nice one. Now you truly are a Rules Captain! :)
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:40 pm

Mr.Scary wrote:
Fred Risbee wrote:got the answer, it's:

She gets a five, her three throws plus two penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
You know with the Cyclone coming up I was wondering what a score would be on #2 if you missed the mandos on your second shot but you made it in! I've got it now. Par(4).

Thx.
If you threw your second in while missing the mando, didn't realise and progressed on playing at least one shot on the next hole, the realised the mistake, then yes, your 2 shots plus 2 penalty shots = 4

If you realise you've missed it, you play shot 4 from the drop-zone and take how ever many you take.

If you realise you've missed it, but write a 4 on the card and move on, then you're gonna get a DQ for deliberately cheating...
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Jester » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:43 pm

bruce wrote:
Mr.Scary wrote:
Fred Risbee wrote:got the answer, it's:

She gets a five, her three throws plus two penalty throws for misplaying the mandatory.
You know with the Cyclone coming up I was wondering what a score would be on #2 if you missed the mandos on your second shot but you made it in! I've got it now. Par(4).

Thx.
If you threw your second in while missing the mando, didn't realise and progressed on playing at least one shot on the next hole, the realised the mistake, then yes, your 2 shots plus 2 penalty shots = 4

If you realise you've missed it, you play shot 4 from the drop-zone and take how ever many you take.

If you realise you've missed it, but write a 4 on the card and move on, then you're gonna get a DQ for deliberately cheating...
Three ways I was right then? Thanks, Rules Captain! :D
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Wed May 07, 2014 7:58 am

The PDGA rules book/competition manual is now available in various eBook formats for your mobile devices, with fully functioning internal links:
http://www.pdga.com/documents/current-o ... -disc-golf
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Jester » Wed May 07, 2014 9:14 am

bruce wrote:The PDGA rules book/competition manual is now available in various eBook formats for your mobile devices, with fully functioning internal links:
http://www.pdga.com/documents/current-o ... -disc-golf
Cool to see this is happening. Can you confirm please that this announcement is purely wrt the rules now being available in new formats and not that any rules have actually changed?
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Wed May 07, 2014 9:36 am

Jester wrote:Cool to see this is happening. Can you confirm please that this announcement is purely wrt the rules now being available in new formats and not that any rules have actually changed?
That's correct. Next update likely looking to be ready for the 2016 season
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Jester » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:53 pm

Rules/tournament procedure question about an incident at Mendip last weekend.

About halfway through the 4th round, while the top group was about to tee off on the 11th, a Landrover and trailer parked smack across the 10th tee. Clearly in the way, there was no way anyone still to play the 10th would not be affected by it. The position of the tee was just off the side of an access road. Large bushes along one side of the tee and behind it meant there was no line to move the tee back on, and anyway moving anywhere would have drastically altered the highly prescriptive design of the hole.

While everyone in the Open division had played the hole, only some of the Ams had done so when the landy parked on it. We deliberated for about half an hour trying to work out what to do if moving the landy wasn't an option (which is wasn't without the absent anonymous owner doing it). The best solution that could be arrived at was to ask the two Am groups now waiting on 10 to skip the hole and go straight to 11. Each group was to wait until the next Am group behind caught up so they could pass the ‘skip it’ message on. At the end of the round the (when the landy had hopefully moved) the groups would have to come back out and each play the 10th hole.

A far from ideal solution, but the only one that seemed to be fair for all concerned.

Luckily after about 40mins the landy driver turned up and moved his car. The golf continued, albeit about 40mins delayed. The question is, if the driver hadn’t come back, what would have been the right thing to do for all the players? Had the top group (containing the TD) not been on the scene when the landy parked, would any players have known what to do?
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Re: Rules thread

Post by bruce » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 am

Ultimately it would be down to TD discretion, but it sounds like a sensible approach was taken. You've obviously identified that 803.01 details relief from obstacles, including motor vehicles, but that the specified action (5m LOP relief) wasn't possible.

In answer to your 2 questions:
1) If I was TD I would have taken the 'skip it & wait' approach, and had the landy not moved by the end of the round I would have struck the hole from the course for any affected divisions, reducing it to a 17 hole round and subtracting the score from any players who had completed it. I would take a similar approach if say a tree fell and crushed a basket mid-round.

2) The correct answer here is 'ask the TD'. We have yet to move to the non-playing TD model that the US have which makes this easier, but the TD should be contactable during rounds, we all have mobile phones and courses are not that big.
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Re: Rules thread

Post by Jester » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:24 am

Thanks for clarifying.

You're right, 803.01 didn't quite solve things for us. Even if there had of been space behind the tee to move back on the line of play, the Landy still would have been in the way. I'm glad the problem worked itself out in the end, but the idea of scratching the hole from everyone in the affected divisions is a good fall back for the future.
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