Rules thread

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Stew
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Post by Stew » Tue May 11, 2010 6:34 pm

I remember talking on Sunday afternoon about borrowing other peoples discs. Charlie had lost his sidewinder and didn't have anything else to turn over and asked if he was allowed to borrow a disc from me.

I recall reading something when I first started the sport stating how unlike ball golf there was no limit to the number of discs you carry and that you could even buy a new disc during a round (if the opportunity arose). I have looked and I'm sure I didn't read this on PDGA, though can't find any clear instructions as to whether there are rules against it.

If in BDGA/PDGA sanctioned competition someone was kind enough to lend a disc to someone for the rest of the round would someone get penalised, who and why?
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West
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Post by West » Tue May 11, 2010 8:03 pm

It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)

As for doubles and/or match play it would be, I'd imagine, be more relaxed.
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Post by bruce » Tue May 11, 2010 9:29 pm

West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)

As for doubles and/or match play it would be, I'd imagine, be more relaxed.
Tut tut Westy, aren't you a rules official?

The only restriction on discs are that they must comply with the regs, be uniquely marked (nothing stating that it must be your mark), no limit on number, no restrictions on picking some up mid round or anything similar.
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Post by TheGroover » Wed May 12, 2010 8:06 am

West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)
As Bruce said, this is one of the top mythical rules I always hear people stating. Kind of like the rule that states you can't have alcohol during a round - it doesn't exist. (the rule states you can consume illegal substances)
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Post by Jester » Wed May 12, 2010 8:08 am

TheGroover wrote:
West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)
As Bruce said, this is one of the top mythical rules I always hear people stating. Kind of like the rule that states you can't have alcohol during a round - it doesn't exist. (the rule states you can consume illegal substances)
Surely that should be 'can't consume', Andy, or are you just looking for an excuse... :lol:
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Post by West » Wed May 12, 2010 8:38 am

bruce wrote:
West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)

As for doubles and/or match play it would be, I'd imagine, be more relaxed.
Tut tut Westy, aren't you a rules official?

The only restriction on discs are that they must comply with the regs, be uniquely marked (nothing stating that it must be your mark), no limit on number, no restrictions on picking some up mid round or anything similar.
My bad :oops:

Nope, not an official yet as lost my exam when I moved house ... also, not had a new rule book from the Sec (was Dunc when asked) yet after mine turned into a paper mache tracey island after Whitcombe last summer :(
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Post by bruce » Wed May 12, 2010 9:00 am

TheGroover wrote:
West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)
As Bruce said, this is one of the top mythical rules I always hear people stating. Kind of like the rule that states you can't have alcohol during a round - it doesn't exist. (the rule states you can consume illegal substances)
Other than your freudian slip, the rule you're missing is in the competition manual, which I suspect most BDGA members are blissfully unaware of:
http://www.pdga.com/node/5120
In particular this section:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/3-3-professional-misconduct
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Post by LostMeow » Wed May 12, 2010 9:39 am

Tom
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Post by bruce » Wed May 12, 2010 9:44 am

Ah, but don't forget:
C. The following dress code for all competitors will be enforced at all PDGA National Tour and Major Events

Which doesn't include ours. Only A & B apply to us
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Post by TheGroover » Wed May 12, 2010 10:21 am

bruce wrote:
TheGroover wrote:
West wrote:It was my understanding that you can only throw the discs that you start with, but would have to try and find the rule on this :)
As Bruce said, this is one of the top mythical rules I always hear people stating. Kind of like the rule that states you can't have alcohol during a round - it doesn't exist. (the rule states you can consume illegal substances)
Other than your freudian slip, the rule you're missing is in the competition manual, which I suspect most BDGA members are blissfully unaware of:
http://www.pdga.com/node/5120
In particular this section:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/3-3-professional-misconduct
I stand corrected. I won't get the hip flask out again. Curses.
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Post by Steve » Wed May 12, 2010 3:40 pm

bruce wrote:Ah, but don't forget:
C. The following dress code for all competitors will be enforced at all PDGA National Tour and Major Events

Which doesn't include ours. Only A & B apply to us
hehe, I remember some foreign ultimate guy at the Shrewsbury tour 2006/7 playing his entire Sunday round including the final he made, all barefoot!

Even if I'd known the rule I would of ignored it, for the fact the guy put up with walking through nettles and the nasty wooded bits in the river section with nowt on his feet!

Hard as nails? or stupid? :D
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Post by West » Wed May 12, 2010 6:47 pm

TheGroover wrote:
bruce wrote:
TheGroover wrote: As Bruce said, this is one of the top mythical rules I always hear people stating. Kind of like the rule that states you can't have alcohol during a round - it doesn't exist. (the rule states you can consume illegal substances)
Other than your freudian slip, the rule you're missing is in the competition manual, which I suspect most BDGA members are blissfully unaware of:
http://www.pdga.com/node/5120
In particular this section:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/3-3-professional-misconduct
I stand corrected. I won't get the hip flask out again. Curses.
You can have a "warm up" nip before the 2min warning :)
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Post by CharlieM » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:42 pm

Sorry to re-open this old thread but I have a rules question which I think will probably come up again so it would be useful for others if they can find it without asking.

I won the int ams at Burnlaw yesterday. I am still grinning!

I am unclear on the rules about moving up. I really don't mind moving up as I play tournaments for fun and never went into a tournament with the thought that I had a chance of winning. Even going into the final yesterday, the idea of winning seemed preposterous.

My question is pretty strait forward. Is moving up compulsory after an int ams win?

My reason is less strait forward. I don't really want to move up for obvious reasons. I don't know how often a win with a plus 17 round, a plus 14 round and a plus 8 round, followed by a final in which I played about the same standard I did in the plus 8 round (there was no par as they were jungle holes) but I am guessing not very often. Without wishing to cast aspersions over my fellow int ams who were present at Burnlaw I feel that the win is not representative of my ability or the standard usually required to win a tournament but would certainly want to act in accordance with the rules.

Thanks

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Post by rhatton1 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:52 pm

Nope, not compulsory, just ask Phil W!

Depends on what you feel like as a player and if your rating gets over the compulsory 850 cap. As your win came in the final this is unlikely to force you up.

Decision then is entirely yours! (although be prepared for the abuse from certain quarters ;-) )

Congrats on the win by the way!
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Post by Mark.A.D » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:27 pm

Rich is right, it's about the ratings, I came second in the int and at the QP Open and moved up due to rating, however after shooting an 800 and 810 rated round at burnlaw my rating may put me back in the int ams after the next update
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Post by james » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:24 pm

Mark.A.D wrote:Rich is right, it's about the ratings, I came second in the int and at the QP Open and moved up due to rating, however after shooting an 800 and 810 rated round at burnlaw my rating may put me back in the int ams after the next update
But surely you have too much pride to move back down right....
I mean rating means nothing if you know you can play up to the standard of the higher division :)
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Post by ultiali » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:36 pm

I think though that Charlie isn't a BDGA or PDGA member so doesn't have a rating.

In this instance its more up to the TD of the tournament in question to decide if you are appropriate for the division you have entered.

They might do this by looking at recent rounds you have done and see what rating they would have earnt you or ask around to check.

For the cyclone that means its Jester's call. If I was TD i'd let you play int am, but if you won it then I reckon the next TD might be inclined to bump you up.

Moral of the story, get a proper rating.

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Post by West » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:43 pm

Its comes down to pride, and if you can take the verbal beating. Also if you're going to tour then you should think about become a BDGA touring member next year and you'll get ratings and stuff. Like Ali said, it will be down to TD, but as you won away from home and the last event of the season is at home for you, he may bumb you up ... or might keep you down so you can all shout "C'mon Croydon" some more ;-)

On the flipside, once I get the results from Garry I'll sort out the PDGA submission and we can take a look at your round ratings compared to members and see what comes of that and take it from there :)
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Post by CharlieM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:30 pm

Well I've registered for the cyclone already and I have registered as an int am. I feel that this is fair but if Jester feels he must bump me up then so be it. I shall not cry!

The point of me not having been a BDGA or PDGA member this year, or last, and therefore not having been rated is the crux of the issue.

This is how I see it.

My average around Croydon this year is about 10/11 over with some improvement this summer meaning a more recent average would be about 8 over. My handicap for the summer league was unchanged at 10 over all season which is based on the average score of summer league rounds. My personal best, around Croydon is 5 over.

Therefore my average and PB is the same as Dan Hawkins', higher than James Bates', much higher than Jerry Andrew's and generally high, even in int am circles. This is why I feel I should still be in the int am division.

If I were to win the Cyclone I would clearly be under a lot of pressure to move up and I would also be proud to do so. I am willing, however, to bet that I don't win the Cyclone as I just don't think I play a high enough standard of golf. I rather think that Jester would agree. Time will tell, I'll enjoy myself either way!

I will definitely join up for next year, the only reason I have let membership slide in the last 2 years is that I was made redundant, went self employed and could not afford to tour, therefore the membership was entirely pointless.

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Post by rhatton1 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:39 am

West wrote: it will be down to TD, but as you won away from home and the last event of the season is at home for you, he may bumb you up ...
Jesters going to "bumb" you up???? What sort of tournament am I coming to?

I'm pretty sure noone will begrudge you staying in int ams. To be competitive at adv ams you will need to be shooting 3 rounds of sub 60 golf (and probably closer to mid 50's) - as you say above you're PB is 62, it's unlikely in tournament play you are suddenly going to shoot 3 rounds beating your previous PB.

To not come bottom of the adv ams you will need to be shooting three rounds around 65. Once again this is your handicap, not the score you would expect to achieve each round in tournament conditions.

To be in the final of int ams at Croydon you will probably need to shoot three rounds averaging between 63 - 68, that would seem a more realistic goal from your usual scores around the park.

My advice? Stay in int am, gain more experience of pressure golf and enjoy it more. If you do win two back to back, then move up.
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