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BDGA Newletter

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:48 pm
by seamus
So let me get this right.
The Bdga Newsletter for "The croydon Cyclone is sponsored by Kastaplast"
The Bdga Newsletter for Prodigy presents The Battle at Bluebell Woods Euro Tour #3 is "BDGA presents- The British Open"
seriously [mod edit: now I've been made aware of the meaning of this, removed for abusive content and swear filter avoidance]

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:30 am
by LostMeow
seamus wrote:So let me get this right.
The Bdga Newsletter for "The croydon Cyclone is sponsored by Kastaplast"
The Bdga Newsletter for Prodigy presents The Battle at Bluebell Woods Euro Tour #3 is "BDGA presents- The British Open"
seriously -deleted
Seriously, what's the dig? Rich published a full apology!

"Finally, an apology. The last issue concentrated on the British Open. The correct title for the event was:

Prodigy presents - The Battle at Bluebell Woods - Euro Tour #3 + WGE.

In editing the article provided by Seamus I inadvertently omitted the title Sponsors name from the event title. Organisations that sponsor our events are incredibly important to the growth of our sport and my error did them and Seamus a big disservice. For my error, I offer my sincere apologies.
" (From the newsletter)

What more would you like from the guy?

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:13 am
by seamus
Yes, I saw that.
Its very frustrating.
I'm logging off of this forum, best of luck to you folks.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 11:00 am
by Jester
FFS, come on, Seamus!

An honest mistake was made. Lesser men than Rich may have just ignored, or made excuses as to why it wasn't his fault, but he gave you a full apology and a correction in the very next issue of the newsletter. I can't see what else he reasonably could have done?

That it upsets you that Rich learnt from the experience and made sure the sponsor name from the next tournament, the Cyclone, was included in his report, isn't a reason for toys to come out the pram, is it?

I hope you'll reconsider removing yourself from discussions here. You bring a different perspective that challenges and promotes debate.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 2:45 pm
by richard
Well, that certainly wasn't the reaction that I was expecting.

But OK then, I feel that I have earned the right of reply and therefore I shall use it here on the forum.

I edit the Newsletter that I have run for some 70 odd issues to bring news of tournaments and events from right across the country. If you have a story that you would like to submit, you are always welcome to do so, always. I primarily schedule these newsletter to fall into your inbox 1 week from the end of the BDGA Tour events and The British Open.

The British Open, in my opinion, is and should always be the very pinnacle of British Disc Golf. When we formed the club at Croydon (Yes, Seamus, we have a capital "C" in our title) over a decade ago THE number one thing on our list of MUST ACHIEVES was to host The British Open... My holy grail as chairman of the club. It was the proudest moment in our clubs history and will always be held as one of the best things WE have ever done. This is why we always have a British Open Issue in the same way as we have Special Issues if a UK course hosts a European Championship... I feel that they are special events that a club or course should be proud to host.

So when I edit the British Open Issue of the Newsletter I will use the term The British Open as and where I feel that it is necessary. I asked for a write up from the event, as I do for every event around the country. I nag people to to get it to me within a now familiar timeframe. And I am very pleased to say that I receive some great write ups from a myriad of writers from all over the country and indeed from participants from overseas. One of the reasons for this approach is to get a new and fresh look at a tournament from the point of view of one players weekend experience. You will often read about a tournament that you played in and wonder if it was the same event!
When I approached Seamus to ask if he had an author in mind for the event he said it was covered, cool, and then on the Tuesday after the event I asked for the name of said author so that I could chase them up. He said that I would have the write up on time and the following day I was sent a link to the Reboot Blog. I was to copy that and use it as the write up.

I normally receive the write ups in an email or sometimes a word doc. I copy and paste into the newsletters online software. Sometimes I have a great deal of difficulty in formatting the copy depending on the incoming source. I tried a few times to copy the words from the blog but failed due to the formatting from the site. I did ask for a standard word file but it was unavailable. So I persisted, taking chunks of the wording from the blog and pasting first into word, joining it together, reformatted it, then inserted into the NL software. With all this I forgot to take the logos of the sponsors... To be honest, logo inclusion wasn't asked for by Seamus, but I still hold my hands up as this was my error. As I explained in my NL apology, I did err with the Title Sponsor omission. What I did not say, is that the term British Open had been omitted from the Title, the write up, the PDGA Event page, The PDGA Europe calendar... Pretty much everywhere.
If I hadn't put "The British Open" into the Newsletter adverts or the title then it would have been the British Open Issue of the NL without any reference to The British Open.

So my request to you, Seamus, is simple. If you are ever lucky enough to be awarded the honour of hosting The BDGA British Open Disc Golf Championships again, please feel free to give us a mention once in a while. For my part I will source an author for write up so that the newsletter doesn't have sloppy seconds as its copy.

Rich Wood
Editor BDGA Newsletter

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 8:32 pm
by james
I echo the sentiments of both Tom and Jester here. A mistake was made and an apology was offered. Hopefully this is something that can be avoided in the future.

The Newsletter has and continues to be our main method of updating members as to what is going on around the tour and Rich dedicates a lot of his free time not just to piecing it together but to sourcing contributors and photos to make the whole thing have a professional look to it. And I personally can't support him enough in the work that he does considering the number of issues that are produced and the speed with which they are available after a tournament. The missing of the sponsors logos and titles is unfortunate but by no means should it be taken as a personal offence and I do hope that you reconsider your statement of leaving the forum Seamus as you offer us new perspectives as Jester mentioned. Lessons have been learned and an apology has been issued I hope this will be the end of the matter and we can move on.

What I will say is that members of the board and many disc golfers around the country, including yourself Seamus, dedicate large amounts of their free time to help the sport run smoothly. I don't believe that any of those people deserve to be spoken to or referred to in a way such as Rich seems to have been in your initial post. It's not how I would ever speak to a volunteer within the game and whilst I appreciate your frustrations it is certainly not appreciated on a public forum. Here's hoping apologise can be issued on both sides and we can continue the relationship with Reboot that offers so much to British Disc Golf.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 4:02 pm
by seamus
Ok, I'm back, It's very hard to stay away because I love disc golf. The newsletter was the straw that broke the camels back, try and focus on the big picture. And no I will not be apologizing now or anytime soon.
richard wrote: The British Open, in my opinion, is and should always be the very pinnacle of British Disc Golf.
richard wrote: So when I edit the British Open Issue of the Newsletter I will use the term The British Open as and where I feel that it is necessary.
richard wrote:What I did not say, is that the term British Open had been omitted from the Title, the write up, the PDGA Event page, The PDGA Europe calendar... Pretty much everywhere.
Prodigy Europe, East Lothian Council, Knops Beer, Thistly Cross Cider, Vibram Disc Golf, Latitude 64, Thurston Manor, Ace Adventures all put up merchandise or funds to be represented during our event. For a fee Pdga Europe assisted us with services and organization. I worked hard to represent all these folks. The Bdga just assumes Title sponsorship?, its the British Open because you deem it so? This is very out dated thinking and will not work for your association moving froward. What needs to be understood is I'm running a business. I make mistakes all the time too but I've never been arrogant enough to attach my brand to the hard work of someone else. I'm not blaming you Rich, there seems to be a common thread in culture with this topic. It's a very insular self serving way of thinking and I needed to make those harsh comments in order to defend myself, my business and our sponsors. My logo's were stripped along with my title sponsors and James Luton* in a disc zoo shirt was on the cover. And your response is "I didn't submit the article properly?" Whatever. Perhaps you should turn to a Bdga member in the future.
richard wrote:He said that I would have the write up on time and the following day I was sent a link to the Reboot Blog. I was to copy that and use it as the write up.
So you have an issue with me controlling my brand?

richard wrote:So my request to you, Seamus, is simple. If you are ever lucky enough to be awarded the honour of hosting The BDGA British Open Disc Golf Championships again, please feel free to give us a mention once in a while. For my part I will source an author for write up so that the newsletter doesn't have sloppy seconds as its copy.
Why? I am not a member of the Bdga, do you ask the same of all non-members? And I did include the Bdga on twitter and Instagram, the posts went nowhere so I stopped including you for better options.

The Euro Tour
When we were contacted by Pdga Europe to host the Euro Tour in '16 I was honored to do so and I would be again. Given the personal emails I received I could tell certain Croydon folks got a little sand in their swimsuits. Get over it, disc golf is a very big sport now, its not my fault the UK is so far behind in growth. I'm going to grow my business "with or without you" to quote U2.
Like I said many many times I will be applying for the Euro Tour every year from now on. I will be the first to congratulate another TD if they are selected.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:13 pm
by seamus
Jester wrote:FFS, come on, Seamus!

An honest mistake was made. Lesser men than Rich may have just ignored, or made excuses as to why it wasn't his fault, but he gave you a full apology and a correction in the very next issue of the newsletter. I can't see what else he reasonably could have done?

That it upsets you that Rich learnt from the experience and made sure the sponsor name from the next tournament, the Cyclone, was included in his report, isn't a reason for toys to come out the pram, is it?
It was not a mistake Jester, it was a conscious effort to undermine my hard work at the Euro Tour and re-brand it as The British Open.
Richard wrote:If you are ever lucky enough to be awarded the honour of hosting The BDGA British Open Disc Golf Championships again, please feel free to give us a mention once in a while.
This is my point, no lessons were learned. The event IS The Battle at Bluebell Woods, Euro Tour #3, Pdga A-Tier, Quaich Tour #5 presented by Prodigy Europe, lets jump that hurdle first.

Also the asterisk from the previous post, James Luton*, I was going to note that I do not see that you (or Disc Zoo) had a hand in any of this.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:15 pm
by bruce
seamus wrote:It was not a mistake Jester, it was a conscious effort to undermine my hard work at the Euro Tour and re-brand it as The British Open.
You've jumped the shark on this one Seamus. The EuroTour event has been the British Open for a long time. Rich is a far too respectful character to even consider intentionally undermining you. I like you and the work you're doing, but show a little respect and decorum, or valued contributions or not I'll bar you from this forum.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:15 pm
by bruce
seamus wrote:It was not a mistake Jester, it was a conscious effort to undermine my hard work at the Euro Tour and re-brand it as The British Open.
You've jumped the shark on this one Seamus. The EuroTour event has been the British Open for a long time. Rich is a far too respectful character to even consider intentionally undermining you. I like you and the work you're doing, but show a little respect and decorum, or valued contributions or not I'll bar you from this forum.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 5:59 am
by seamus
There is no shark jumping, feel free to delete this thread or ban me from this forum, no one is above criticism.

I said my piece and I'm moving on.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:40 pm
by Trevor
I'm am not going to be an apologist for Seamus, I though his comments regarding Rich and by association the wider UK disc golf hierarchy were unnessary in a public forum.

What his comments and sentiment show is the depth of feeling regarding the wider development of the game and the huge gap in how the movers and shakers of the sport feel about its future. Having recently taken part in some online dialog, it is clear to me that the number one priority for the BDGA is to sort itself out and decide on its role. It's not the website or the constitution or how to chose national representatives though these are important too, it's the future role of th BDGA.

Seamus, Rich, Derek and others are not giving their free time to promote disc golf, it's their lively hood. The BDGA must figure out soon how to progress.

As an aside, Bruce and the moderator, I note that you have edited Seamus original post due to possible sweary words. Please be consistent and review the thread. I note Jester has used an equally potentially offensive abbreviation in one of his comments. I also find the threat of banning Seamus for his comments to be worrying.

IMHO of course.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:18 pm
by Jester
Trevor wrote:As an aside, Bruce and the moderator, I note that you have edited Seamus original post due to possible sweary words. Please be consistent and review the thread. I note Jester has used an equally potentially offensive abbreviation in one of his comments. I also find the threat of banning Seamus for his comments to be worrying.
Lest I get tarred with the same brush, I feel compelled to point out the the acronym I used (which I've never felt the need to use before on the Forum) was a genuine expression of bewilderment at the situation, not a personal insult directed at another Forum user.

(Note to mod - the edit you made hasn't removed the offending phase completely, it is quoted in other posts)

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:25 pm
by Trevor
Jester wrote:
Lest I get tarred with the same brush, I feel compelled to point out the the acronym I used (which I've never felt the need to use before on the Forum) was a genuine expression of bewilderment at the situation, not a personal insult directed at another Forum user.

(Note to mod - the edit you made hasn't removed the offending phase completely, it is quoted in other posts)

No tarring was meant, it is a request for consistency and I used your name to reference my request. Not knowing what the original deleted acronym meant I would not be adverse to being enlightened in a private message. I could not find it in the frequently asked question section of the Internet.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:05 pm
by Jester
No worries, mate. PM sent.

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:49 am
by bruce
For the record, I considered also editing Jesters post for that reason, however as he points out, it was a colloquial expression of frustration, rather than a directed personal insult.

I stand by the threat to ban or otherwise 'naughty step' users for inappropriate behaviour and language. It won't be a decision taken lightly and will be preceded by warnings, but this is a publicly viewable forum and needs to be a welcoming environment for members and non-members alike, where people are free to express differing views without fear of personal attacks and abuse.

The edited comments in this thread crossed the line, and the accusations of malicious intent were very very close to it.

Incidentally, I'm more than happy to hand the moderation job onto someone else...

Re: BDGA Newletter

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:51 am
by seamus
Another side effect of the way the the Euro Tour labeling was handled is that no where in my report to the East Lothian Council Tourism Board is the Bdga mentioned. There is no usable information in market research or publicity.

I'd say the most important thread on this forum is "what is the Bdga" started by Rich H.

I thought ffs= For Foxlake Seamus!
seriously.