What is the BDGA?

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bruce
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by bruce » Thu May 19, 2016 2:49 pm

With everything it's the up front cost/effort that's the problem. If you build it then they will come, but building it is non-trivial and not free...
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rhatton1
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by rhatton1 » Thu May 19, 2016 2:53 pm

To add to this - some of the administrative work is outsourced and was outsourced over the last few years rather than done with the overhead of employing someone. Might be a better way to look at the paid person model, whoever it is invoices for their time rather than is employed by the BDGA. Or contract work is worked out by the BDGA and someone picks up the work at a pre agreed price - ie load up 100 new members - £20, I can think of one stats happy little geek just out of university who could pick up that as side income! Not sure how the oversight would work on this though.

It would be a cheaper and less risky way of starting down the paid road though.
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by rhatton1 » Thu May 19, 2016 3:31 pm

Thinking about it more the BDGA paying club league sanctioning could become a good money earner. No risk to TD, no reason not to get a league going. Insurance covered under the BDGA remit

League gets 10 players a week for 10 weeks (Bedworths first night saw 12 - I think Corydon SL gets more than this? ). Each pays £1 a head BDGA tax, TD can charge what he likes for prize fund if any - but probably keeps it to 2 or 3 quid.

BDGA £100 income at end of 10 week league
Pdga sanctioning tax cost £18 ish pounds.
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Jester
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by Jester » Fri May 20, 2016 10:55 am

rhatton1 wrote:
bruce wrote:
The 'club voting' piece would be a massive change and I'm not sure how that works, does each club have to have a 'mini election' to decide who the club votes for?
I imagine as with most of these things that the majority of players don't care enough or aren't informed enough to make a decision and so leave it to the elected club officials to vote in the best interests of the local club.

It's an intriguing way of doing things, I can't think of a similar situation I've come across. Almost like voting for your parish councilors and then letting them vote in the national elections on your behalf. It's not one person one vote but you are in a position to effect change locally more easily and then see that reflected in the national sphere, possibly leading to more engagement with the process. It's certainly interesting. Whats the biggest voting turnout the BDGA has ever had, probably last years elections? with the club way I would imagine it's close to 100% each time.
The idea of having clubs voting on behalf of players doesn't jump out at me as being a great idea necessarily. It appears to have similarities to the Electoral College process the USA uses to elect a president, and that is a flawed system (e.g. Dubya won the election on College votes despite getting less votes nationally than Gore). A vote that doesn't reflect public opinion isn't democratic. I would think there are bigger issues to solve first in the future of the BDGA than it's voting process, so perhaps sticking to one person one vote for now is fine?
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bruce
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by bruce » Fri May 20, 2016 11:20 am

To be clear, having a club-based membership model would by no means mean you couldn't do one member one vote
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rhatton1
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by rhatton1 » Fri May 20, 2016 11:29 am

Jester wrote:
The idea of having clubs voting on behalf of players doesn't jump out at me as being a great idea necessarily. It appears to have similarities to the Electoral College process the USA uses to elect a president, and that is a flawed system (e.g. Dubya won the election on College votes despite getting less votes nationally than Gore). A vote that doesn't reflect public opinion isn't democratic. I would think there are bigger issues to solve first in the future of the BDGA than it's voting process, so perhaps sticking to one person one vote for now is fine?
Totally agree, certainly intrigued by the idea though and you can see why as the organisation grows it's a much simpler model to work with for the NA.

Doesn't stop a BDGA club structure starting though - that can be separate to the voting process.
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Re: What is the BDGA?

Post by Jester » Fri May 20, 2016 12:24 pm

Yep, investigation into a club structure could continue without needing to change the current voting process. Something perhaps worth investigating to learn about potential pros and cons is a similar change British Ultimate went through in the last decade. Interestingly they went in the opposite direction.

The British Ultimate Federation was the the organising body for Ultimate in the UK when I started playing in 1997. I have to admit I didn't pay much attention to it, I didn't have any contact with the BUF, just with my own club mates. I was never asked to vote on anything, I just rocked up to tournaments and played.

In the early 2000s the BUF started to change. IIRC it stopped being a Federation of Clubs and moved towards becoming an Association of Individuals. Perhaps I'm mis-remembering that, according to the UKU site in 2008 the UKU became a company limited by guarantee. "We are a not-for-profit organisation. The members are effectively the “owners” of UK Ultimate, rather like the shareholders of a company, except that in particular the organisation cannot distribute any profits. The members elect a Board of Directors to act on their behalf in looking after the interests of the organisation. The Board in turn appoints a number of people and committees to take responsibility for various activities and/or areas within the sport." (More here - http://www.ukultimate.com/about_uku/how_uku_works)

I don't know what the UKU changed away from the Federation of Clubs model (Del, Ivan, Sue, Charlie, any ideas?) but there might be some learnings there those interested could look into further. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and just because something works doesn't necessarily mean it would work here. That said if Tipani wants to put his hand up for National Director I'll vote for him!
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