2013 rules revision

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LostMeow
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by LostMeow » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:33 am

BOF wrote:However, if someone stops your disc from rolling into the river (by prior arrangement), but does so on the in-bounds side of OB, then your disc was technically 'lost' before it crossed the OB line, so the 'lost disc' penalty applies before the OB penalty!

Oh, the joy of making up silly situations involving discs, hazards, loose twigs and open-toed footwear...
Indeed - except I can see this situation actually being a reality rather than something purely hypothetical. Given that you'd pretty much have to be standing in the river to be OB when you stopped the disc from falling in, it would probably be more likely that the person would be standing in bounds, so yes, the disc would be 'lost' - however, would the dropzone rule extend to cover OB drives and lost discs? Otherwise you'd have a tricky decision between asking someone to save your disc, thereby having the disc still but having to take your third shot from the tee again; or letting the disc be lost in the river so at least your third shot is from the DZ...

With the 'excessive time' thing, I think if you enforced it too fiercely people would just take longer walking to their disc. I have heard occasional grumbling but I wouldn't say there's an endemic problem in the BDGA tour of rounds taking too long and not finishing in good time, so why cause the aggro of enforcing that most nit-picking of rules?
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BOF
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by BOF » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:43 am

so why cause the aggro of enforcing that most nit-picking of rules?
just to see the little veins in their temples throbbing! :twisted:

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TheGroover
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by TheGroover » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:51 am

LostMeow wrote:With the 'excessive time' thing, I think if you enforced it too fiercely people would just take longer walking to their disc. I have heard occasional grumbling but I wouldn't say there's an endemic problem in the BDGA tour of rounds taking too long and not finishing in good time, so why cause the aggro of enforcing that most nit-picking of rules?
On the off-chance I don't make it to the finals at QP this weekend :lol: maybe it's time for abit of data nerdery to test this. What I'll need is to time everyone's prep time during the final:
- player name
- hole
- throw type (drive, putt, etc)
- note
- time to throw.

Anyone else who wants to help out on this is welcome. Without real data, the grumblings I hear a lot are conjecture. Whenever I've quietly timed people in the past, it's very rare they actually go beyond 30seconds. Anyway - with real data, we'll see if people are actually infringing the rules or not.
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by bruce » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:01 am

As a matter of fact, the BOD elected to revoke the TDs power to limit the options on OB without approval from the Tour Manager as per 804.04 D, so the question is largely irrelevant. In either case, you can declare a DZ for lost disc also.

Regarding time, I do not feel we have a particular problem at the moment. I'm pretty sure we've all taken more than 30 seconds over a tricky lie where you can't see the basket, but the majority of shots take place well under the time limit. I find that those who are perceived as slow merely take up 20-25s of their allotted time for nearly all their throws, whereas other players are happy to throw in half that. Having had slow cards at the Euros and actively monitored it, time wasted is nearly always getting between lies, not at the lie.

That said, I disagree about aggro and nit picking. There is an endemic culture of not calling violations throughout DG worldwide, stance violations, time and probably courtesy are the prime culprits, and the move to a single person warning is part of trying to resolve that. If I can warn you on it myself, the rest of the card will be alert and available for seconding it in subsequent cases. Currently the first warning is typically one person seeing it and having an informal word, which I think lends itself to personal 1-2-1 conflict, and does nothing to alert the group to look for a formal infraction.
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:11 pm

What is the rule if there is a distraction half way through your shot. Say at Croydon a dog walker stops you mid throw, how much time do you have from when they have cleared the area, does this reset to 30 seconds? Does the same apply for any distraction that stops you mid routine (shout of fore from a nearby tea or disc coming in close from another group?)
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by bruce » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Read the rule, I think it's pretty clear!
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by rhatton1 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:35 pm

Alright, alright, I'm reading the damned things, just remember a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and I'm lazy and you've forced me to read a little, so I am now all your fault. :D
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by BOF » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:39 pm

shout of fore from a nearby tea
must be a wild tea if they're shouting 'fore' - jam and scones everywhere!

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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by TheGroover » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:39 pm

I've done the analysis on how long everyone took to throw in QP Open 2012 final - interactive and comments over on the Tour event thread:
http://bdga.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 137#p18137
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by andrewdouse » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:33 am

an interesting article

http://www.pdga.com/ratings-manipulation-addressed

on the new 888 result - like a 999 DNF - except with an upto 5 ratings point penalty for 6 months.
To be used when players either don't give more than 15 minutes notice of not turning up for a round, or are suspected of intentionally manipulating their rating. e.g not handing in their scorecard so that the round doesn't count, or deliberately adding shots to keep their rating down (unlikely to happen over here with less divisions and money at stake).
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mat cutler
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by mat cutler » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:38 pm

andrewdouse wrote: To be used when players either don't give more than 15 minutes notice of not turning up for a round,.... (unlikely to happen over here with less divisions and money at stake).
this would of been the case for a few people at bristol last year on the sunday, as people DNF'd due to weather but didn't let me know requiring a very quick group reshuffle....

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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by andrewdouse » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:25 pm

I only meant the deliberately adding shots to keep your rating low is unlikely to happen here, as the only difference between divisions is who you play with in the last round, not how much you win.
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West
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by West » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:37 pm

mat cutler wrote:
andrewdouse wrote: To be used when players either don't give more than 15 minutes notice of not turning up for a round,.... (unlikely to happen over here with less divisions and money at stake).
this would of been the case for a few people at bristol last year on the sunday, as people DNF'd due to weather but didn't let me know requiring a very quick group reshuffle....
So if we notified the TD with enough time in the morning (which I did at Bristol) before the round then that's fine? Have I understood that correctly?
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by mat cutler » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:07 pm

West wrote:
mat cutler wrote:
andrewdouse wrote: To be used when players either don't give more than 15 minutes notice of not turning up for a round,.... (unlikely to happen over here with less divisions and money at stake).
this would of been the case for a few people at bristol last year on the sunday, as people DNF'd due to weather but didn't let me know requiring a very quick group reshuffle....
So if we notified the TD with enough time in the morning (which I did at Bristol) before the round then that's fine? Have I understood that correctly?
yep my cheap shot was aimed at the people who didn't tell me the night before like you did adam....

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West
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Re: 2013 rules revision

Post by West » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:06 pm

mat cutler wrote:yep my cheap shot was aimed at the people who didn't tell me the night before like you did adam....
8)
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