Club league idea

[robbnot]

You're not being difficult dude, good ideas all,
I've tried to please the masses over the last couple of years, and like all the politics going on in the world you can't,
People moan.

So set the rules and stand by them, if people don't like it, Tuff, they'll still play and still earn points
And for the people that do like it, hey its all good
We just can't mollycoddle people
Some are winners some are losers
It's only a game

[robbnot]

Having said all that, I ain't that worried how it's scored, I'm not doing it,

And if I came across as grumpy or moany, I wasn't, but when I read it just now I thought I was a grumpy old sod, so sorry Nick,

[LostMeow]

Hi guys,

just to let you know the Board have discussed the idea and really like it - I'm suggesting the name 'Club Trophy' at the moment, but it doesn't have to be called that. We think it would work best if there were no 'handicapping' - as Robb says, that means the bigger clubs may fight it out between themselves etc but it gives the clearest playing field for competition. Imagine being a 'smaller' club that pushes up into the upper regions, Leicester style - what kudos!

What we'd like is someone to step up and administer the points table. I suggest copying across the points players have received in the BDGA points table. What you'll need is a way of working out who is playing for what club.

Ideally we'll publish the table each month in the newsletter.

What do you think? Who's willing to be in charge of this?

[Cooper]

Ok, so busy life - sorry for the delay in replying to this.

Yes I am happy to administer the points table, i will need a deputy to back me up as this will be a challenge in the first year of running it.

Point system is key...
- From what i have read, points will be taken from BDGA associated tournaments, awarded to players then split out to clubs to tally points.
- Modifying into different divions isn't an issue to work out on points
- It's the points tallying that will be the difficult part to make fair

Clubs with a large member base will have the favour
Members of more than one club will be asked to choose one club - seems unfair when you look at QP and Bedworth (from a Bedworth perspective).

However the points system is decided upon for the first time of running it, the system will need changing for the second time of running it. With a new system as variable as this, we need to just go for it in the first year, we can use the experience from the first year to build upon in the second.

Things to be decided:
Club trophy or shield?
Player trophy, shield or medal? (Players need something to show for it - they did the work and not the club)

[LostMeow]

We were strongly in favour of a system that did not involve any alteration of the points as awarded - to make it "fair" as you put it. In my opinion (and as Robb has said) it should just be a straight competition between all clubs. Yes, some clubs are larger (at the moment) and therefore will fight it out at the top of the table; smaller clubs will be competing with themselves for mid-table spots but, in time, could compete with the big ones. This, in my opinion, gives far better incentive for the competition than some artificially weighted scoring that no-one understands fully and, unless designed extremely carefully, will always favour one side or another - is that "fair"?

However, I'm aware that we're asking for help on this, so I suppose that includes some willingness to accept what help we're offered. We can't really say "please help us" on one hand and then say "oh, but don't do it this way" on the other...

I don't particularly think it needs a physical trophy - this is for bragging rights as much as anything. Also, individual prizes for players might be unnecessary - if they're collecting that many points, they can aim for prizes/accolades via the British Championships.

[bruce]

A perpetual club trophy might be quite nice, but as nowhere has a clubhouse to display it in, it may well be unnecessary.

Clubs may choose to reward their outstanding players separately

[Cooper]

Cool,

So lets go on a standard point system:

1st Place - 10 Points
2nd - 9
3rd - 8
4th - 7
5th - 6
6th - 5
7th - 4
8th - 3
9th - 2
10th - 1

I will start building something that can hadle this.

[LostMeow]

I think the idea was just to carry across the BDGA points that players are awarded (which are going to be based on the PDGA points awarded)...

[rhatton1]

A perpetual club trophy might be quite nice, but as nowhere has a clubhouse to display it in, it may well be unnecessary.

Yup, I was hoping there would be a brand spanking new Quarry Park clubhouse open by the end of the year for the MODS ones, not sure there will be room in the container!

[Cooper]

Bedworth cricket club has had no activity on it what-so-ever yet... typical... will make an impressive club house once done tho!

[Cooper]

Using the PDGA point system damn well makes it easier

[Cooper]

Ok after the horribly bad weekend this weekend with DIY, I am not going to get time to sort out tool / program / sheet to handle this club league idea before the new year - sorry guys, i can look into it afterwards, but time is stacked heavily against me now.

[robbnot]

Don't panic Cooper, we'll wait
like you said, the first year will be testing and fault finding, let it pan out and see where clubs end up.

Points - use pdga/bdga points, tallied straight across to your team, but only if you're a BDGA Member, ( I think it adds an incentive to join )

Club - as Cooper says, pick your club at start of season, No swapping, it's only fun bragging rights,

Trophy - if we ever win one, I'll put it in the Toby

Deputy, I volunteer Dark Mavis

[mat cutler]

how do you define a club?

In the south west we have a pretty loose collection of informal groups with very soft boundaries and overlaps

stroud, bristol, mendip, whitcombe, couple of bdga touring players based in wilts/somerset who would probably asssociate with us in general.

none of us have a formal club with paid membership or a constitution etc. At mendip we have a annual paid membership in terms of green fees....

would you allow a 'telephone team' term from ultimate frisbee when often a club or team has no geographical ties but is more a collection of friends who wish to compete together.

how about a sposored team eg. catchthespirit pro team or disczoo?

just questions....

[Cooper]

would you allow a 'telephone team' term from ultimate frisbee when often a club or team has no geographical ties but is more a collection of friends who wish to compete together.

how about a sposored team eg. catchthespirit pro team or disczoo?

I like the idea of these...
Maybe have a main club league, and in the future extend out to this kind of thing... In my opinion there should be no limit to how flexible we make this initially.

[robbnot]

Yeah, can't see a problem with that,
But I think people should state which club they're playing for, and stick with it for the year, remembering that it's only fun, so no swapping clubs,

[bruce]

Personally I would be against telephone teams and Sponsored teams, because they are selection type teams, not clubs. Instead of the former I would hope it might encourage for example a 'West Country DG club' to form, which would be positive for the area anyway.

The latter could happen I suppose, but should not be competing against clubs, but against other sponsored teams only. Maybe telephone teams could compete against sponsored teams

[robbnot]

mmmmm, yeah actually I think I agree with Bruce there, clubs and teams are totally different - everyone's in the club, only the best make a team

It's a fun club league, let's keep it simple, its just a little extra for joining If you want a team league, make one

('cos type doesn't translate mood, I'm saying all that with a smile)

[LostMeow]

OK, the way I can see this working is to have two possible declarations per player - the first is Club, the second is Team.

e.g. my Club is CDGC but I could form a Team with whoever I want - let's say we form a BDGA Board team.

Then we have two separate league tables - one for clubs, one for teams. My points go towards my club and my team.

Does that make sense?

[robbnot]

Yes
Tom wins
No more debate
Please

Haha
Me, my club is Basingstoke, and I don't have a team.... Yet